mukalel

What are you currently doing? We just gave away 5 of our airplanes from cam to amerijet. That tells you something about abx.. they are currently doing nothing to grow this company .. they are giving away all our assets to grow our competition.. the crappiest and most spiteful management i have ever worked with..

Reactivity

Because we're not all 25 years old, single, and able to live on less than $50K per year indefinitely.

Because if a major isn't calling after a couple years of heavy international flying here, why would a couple years of domestic Barbie jet flying look any better?

Because "flow" agreements take years to pay off...if they ever pay off.

Because quick upgrades only happen until the mainline carrier decides to shift a bunch of flying to a different regional carrier.

Because history has shown that hiring can stop at any moment without warning, and even if we never get a better contract, I'll be making more in the right seat here than in the left seat at a regional.

303flyboy

I was a little reluctant to write my opinion but here it is. First and most important thing I should say though is this. What makes me happy and what is important to me might not necessarily be the same for the next boy or girl. So this is simply my opinion.

I left ABX a while ago for a LCC best move I ever made. Living in base is always huge, but working for a company with normal work rules, normal computer systems where I can trade/bid/drop/pick up and not having to call after a trip to see if my days off tomorrow actually mean they are my days off (....) is worth its weight in gold. Plus sitting reserve at home for 4 days followed by 4 off is a joke. Yes, this happens as a line holder at ABX. You finish your trip at 4 AM and actually have to ask if you can go home. If no messages, you are good to go. And before some one jumps on this and says well there are ways to work it... Thats great, I shouldn't have to work it though. Day off means day off.

Now, let me start with the good.

Pilots:

You will be flying with some of the best people out there. And I mean this. I am still friends with many captains and FOs there (though most FOs left), and I can't remember one guy I didn't enjoy flying with. *which is easy as they are all old and asleep most of the flight . All joking aside truly a great pilot group. very vast majority of them good stick and rudder pilots and just pleasant to fly with.

Money :

Second year its ok. And thats on the concessiary contract. You will be JRM'd (D6 days) on your days off and will make good money because of it. You will be utterly fatigued (do you work for a regional right now -- take my word for it you have no idea what fatigued means) and you won't have time to spend it (not joking) but you will be making good money. You shouldn't have to loose years on your life though to make a good paycheck flying a 767...

Training department:

Very very good people. No BS, old airborne express haters are gone but still the old airborne mentality (in a good way). They make good pilots out of their students. Wont hold your hand but will teach you the 76. Good attitude and work hard and you have nothing to worry about. (just like any other training event -- shocker). 9 FTDs or so and Sim 7 or 8 is your ride I believe with with room for 2 extra but my buddy and I didn't need that and I will also say that by sim 5 you just want to do the ride so you can go home. Again, just like any other airline out there. IOE: they signed me off at 17 hours. It's an airplane. You get used to how high you are sitting quick. That for current 121 pilots I believe they can sign you off at 15. If it takes longer thats fine too I think they will give you 40? Don't know.

767:

Gentlemans aircraft. Happy I got signed off in both seats (have to for IRO ops) and just truly a joy to fly. ABX birds are getting older, and the last time the plane got updated was 1965. No PDC, Pack off because its to loud, No ACARS, paper plates, and scoring flights every 30 minutes or so. Yes domestic included. Didn't even know what that was till I started flying there. And also truly glad I learned how to call for clearance again. Miss my Cessna days. After you hand over the paperwork after a trip if you made one mistake (you know because its not like its day 12 and 4 AM somewhere over the Andes and your so damn tired you don't even know you last name anymore) they will call you out on this and make you correct it and fax it back for no reason. Im not making this up. Oh wait I was talking about the good. Ok well, I love the plane. Just hands down I love it. Joy to fly . You'll be too tired to enjoy it but on the rare occasion I was somewhat awake I truly enjoyed flying it and not one capt who doesn't allow you to turn everything off way out and fly the thing. Absolutely loved it.

Teamsters:

I am a very pro union guy and teamsters is by far the best group for ABX. They will protect the group at all cost. Makes ALPA look like girl scouts. At least I get a cool ALPA magazine these days.. I will say though that its sad that such a strong union is needed. Upper management are truly bullies. The guy right below Soapy has a good soul. But he still works for people who truly only care about money and will walk over your for every penny. Not understanding that this will bite them long term. Investing in your employees always yields long term results.

The not so good :

Day 1:

No KCM and no CASS till you are done with training. No KCM period. Not embarrassing at all at the airport.. The CASS is the bigger point though. For most (well when I got hired) this is their 3rd/4th/12th airline job. Most guys have families and even if you don't you deserve to go home on your days off. They give you some line on how the FAA is not ok with pilots who didn't pass their check ride being in CASS.. Interesting story, as every other regional pilot and their mothers get it on day one. It just shows a lot of disrespect to me. And after spending 2/3 months in the cornfields, take my word for it, you will want to go home. If you live in CVG or are considering the move, there are some nice areas there and like always, this will improve your QOL.

ABX birds :

Old old old old. Pack off for your ears, no IPAD no PDC no ACARS no absolutely nothing. Don't get me started, no this is not a deal breaker but it is indicitve for where the company is on safety and how much they care.

Flying :

Contract is being broken ad nauseam. day night transitions, 12 days reserve in CVG in the DHL hub illegal repo's at 6 am after you flew all afternoon before and sat reserve that night..

You won't know what fatigue is till you start doing this flying. Seriously. I remember flying the arc in Mexico City onto the VOR (hey someone has too when the CA is sleeping on his leg) and trying to wake the guy up next to me but he wouldn't wake up. I wasn't sure if he was dead. I thought I just went up one number in seniority.
Finally when I dropped the gear he woke up. Asked him if he wanted the landing on his leg . In hindsight I should have kept the plane. I stopped counting the amount of times waking up somewhere finding the ca and iro asleep. My record is 33 hours awake. 24 hours was normal I was literally falling apart. Do they still do that lovely Lima turn out of Miami at 2 am? its awesome when you came in the day before and try to turn your body around to fall asleep at 4 pm. Wont work.

summary :

I loved the plane. Pilot group.. Probably one of the best people FOs and Captains you will deal with. Captains will ask you on day 1 what is wrong with you why are you here, but they will welcome you with open arms and you will be part of the group.

Very very very bitter. Understandable. They once worked for a large well respected express carrier. Now its nothing more than just another ACMI outfit and that understandably hurts. Pensions got cut. Pay got cut. And now as mgmt is getting more money than they know what to do with, they won't share with the pilot group. When I got hired you still had to do a psych test online and fly the DC8 sim. Loved it. They took pride in who they brought on. Now they will hire you with a (or without just shut up about it) a pulse.

Ultimately what did it for me is the ancient work rules and the utter disrespect (I mean I have never seen anything like it) upper mgmt has for its pilots. I mean it doesn't compare to Jetblue or Frontier or Republic or SkyWest.. It doesn't compare to anything. Its literally spite.

I called my parents and told them listen im going back to the regionals as a street CA if I have too. I rather work 4 days trips living in base making 100K waiting for AA to call than doing this. You will make more money as an ABX FO for sure than a regional CA, however I was so unhappy I was done.

I used to do hiring at one of the larger regionals and used to tell candidates listen.. If the music stops tomorrow, would you be happy here? for me the answer was no. And I guess that is what it ultimately is all about, what makes you and your family happy? QOL is everything to me. Don't care about the plane or seat anymore.

What would have kept me at ABX ?

A normal contract with good work rules. Not one regional (never mind LCC or Legacy) out there with such arcade reserve and work rules. The place has so much potential, but upper management doest not care. At all.

So my advice to you is ask yourself this.. If it all ends tomorrow, could you see yourself at ABX the rest of your career? choose what makes you happy (which is different for me or the next pilot) and go with it.

303flyboy

As a final quick note: There are some really nice people working in the office. HR and scheduling have some lovely people working there who want to help you, their hands are tight. Don't take it out on them. They work a lot harder for less and only so much they can do when they are working for a not so much pro labor mgmt..

Reactivity

Very true. I have a couple of particular favorites. I remember both of them told me "welcome to the family" after I finished IOE. I almost feel bad ignoring their JRM calls when I'm off at home. Almost. And then there's at least one who is sort of spring-loaded to NO. So you wait until one of those others is working and call back for a better shot at the answer you want.

303flyboy

I hear ya brother! Exactly what I used to do !

nitefr8dog

Just a couple points....you will NEVER upgrade at ABX...we have 20yr FO's who cannot upgrade to Captain. Second, you will see the unemployment line sooner rather than later...I would be suprized if you made it to 2nd yr. Reread some of the previous posts...ABX is downsizing and losing business. They have no new business on the horizon and are only hiring to wind things down..IMHO.

motorclutch

Naaaa...... Soapy and ATSG indicate we have tons of applicants. Rich Carrado when addressing the financial community stated that as fact. Would there be any penalties for misrepresenting company data in order to bolster stock prices? Just wondering.

Hang10

Wow, so true! I have over 20 y ars here and it becomes a bigger **** hole everyday!

nitefr8dog

They might have tons of applicants...which if you can hired here you can get a job anywhere. What they will not have is business or airframes at the rate we are parking planes because we lost the flight or leasing them to someone else. So it would be 3 mos of buying hotel rooms and food....all while memorizing a bunch of crap you will never use. For what a 767 type? That is almost like paying for a DC8 type these days.