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JustOvIt 08-31-2018 05:30 AM

Atsg incompetence
 
A letter from JH TO abx capt

, your letter to John Maloney was forwarded to me

That said, I must say that you clearly have some very strong opinions about management as individuals and the thought processes we employ in running the company. Would you care to share with me the basis for these?

I have been with this company coming up on 38 years next month. During that time we have faced many challenges where key decisions had to be made and I can assure you that never once was the basis for those decisions borne of "hatred for the pilots". Were some of those decisions unpopular with the pilots, certainly. But my job isn't to run a popularity contest, it is to make sure that any decision we make takes into account all of our constituencies, shareholders, ALL employees and the community as well.

You ask John many questions about what he is doing or can do to bring ABX back. I would ask you the same question.



JustOvIt 08-31-2018 05:33 AM

Reply
 
I apologize for the delay in my reply to you, I was commuting to work from my home outside of Washington DC yesterday. Which brings to mind, first and foremost, one of your management team’s punitive and unfair practices toward ABX Air pilots: our lack of Known Crew Member status (which you do provide to ATI). Why else, but unreasonable distaste, would you cause it to be more difficult for some of your highest paid and most time critical employees to get to work every month?

I do appreciate your response to my letter to Mr. Maloney though it was not expected nor requested. My letter to him was in part related to several conversations John and I have had, one-on-one, in his office. Furthermore, you must excuse me if I am suspicious of your motivations in reply, as in my 23+ years with this company I have only once been asked for my input and then, only recently by John Maloney; rather, historically, quite the opposite has been the rule. You ask me in your closing line what I can do and what I am doing to bring ABX back. First, I’m not sure it can be brought back from where it has been allowed to fall, but beyond such evaluation, I have done all this company has asked of me to the best of my ability for my entire tenure. I have endured the same ups and downs you speak of but at a much more operational level versus your strategic level. While at this company, I have been surplussed from a captain position, furloughed entirely for eighteen months, taken pay cuts, been harassed by members of your management team (see HR for details), overcome antiquated and sometimes barbaric training methods and yet I remain, despite opportunities to go elsewhere. Secondly, I have offered my services to this company many times and been rebuked every time. I offered to become a standards pilot, I offered to help with Safety (as I was a Chief of Safety in the Air Force), I attempted to assist with attaining what this company erroneously calls CRAF flying and most recently I offered, Mr Soaper and Mr Maloney individually, the use of my extensive training and experience as an operational and strategic level planner to overcome the scheduling difficulties we have month after month. My impression has always been that your management team’s desire is for the pilots in general and myself in particular to simply acquiesce to whatever demands are placed on us. There is a lot of broad and valuable education, training and experience in this pilot group which goes apparently intentionally unresourced.

Let’s talk about what your management has done to ABX Air, the community, its shareholders and its employees, including the pilots: you have taken away what were our aircraft, our maintenance, our flight control then promptly charged ABX for the use of those same resources at artificially high rates. We pay some of the highest lease rates in the industry on the very aircraft you simply took from us. While I realize this is all done internally using ATSG dollars and not real money, it allows the less savvy to claim and believe ABX is far less profitable and valuable than it in fact is. You lease aircraft to our direct competitors and use our mechanics to maintain them. While others may believe dry leasing is more profitable than ACMI, I do not! Perhaps the profit margin is higher because your unit costs are lower, but the overall profit is higher with ACMI because you make a profit on each letter therein! If that were not the case, you would have shutdown both ABX and ATI long ago. As I stated in my letter to John, once we were mentioned in the same breath as FedEx and UPS. Now, after your accession to the top post, we are losing valuable assets and work to the likes of Kalitta, Atlas, ATI, Omni, NAC and the regionals! I’m not talking solely about pilots: Forsythe, Woodford, schedulers, loadmasters, and many others. We have fallen to the bottom of the ACMI scum bucket! It is clear to me, we are not even attempting to compete: in Miami, Los Angeles, or Europe; or for military charters. I personally saw a letter where UPS asked us to fly four trips for them last fourth quarter out of Köln and Miami, your management declined! The national economy and air freight business is better than it has been in decades, yet here we sit: shrinking and withering on the vine. How many more millions could you have earned for the shareholders, if we actually pursued or just accepted business opportunities now available to us. If at least some of these business decisions were not done out of hatred for the pilots, I fear far worse causality exists. Thousands of former Airborne Express employees nationwide lost their jobs, the city and community of Wilmington have been financially harmed severely, not once but twice in the last ten years, were you not at the helm for each and every one of those ten years? How much personal loss did you assume? How does your income compare today with 2008?

Atrasaty 08-31-2018 07:19 AM

Bravo......good on ya.

cargowarrior 08-31-2018 08:54 AM


Originally Posted by JustOvIt (Post 2665677)
I apologize for the delay in my reply to you, I was commuting to work from my home outside of Washington DC yesterday. Which brings to mind, first and foremost, one of your management team’s punitive and unfair practices toward ABX Air pilots: our lack of Known Crew Member status (which you do provide to ATI). Why else, but unreasonable distaste, would you cause it to be more difficult for some of your highest paid and most time critical employees to get to work every month?

I do appreciate your response to my letter to Mr. Maloney though it was not expected nor requested. My letter to him was in part related to several conversations John and I have had, one-on-one, in his office. Furthermore, you must excuse me if I am suspicious of your motivations in reply, as in my 23+ years with this company I have only once been asked for my input and then, only recently by John Maloney; rather, historically, quite the opposite has been the rule. You ask me in your closing line what I can do and what I am doing to bring ABX back. First, I’m not sure it can be brought back from where it has been allowed to fall, but beyond such evaluation, I have done all this company has asked of me to the best of my ability for my entire tenure. I have endured the same ups and downs you speak of but at a much more operational level versus your strategic level. While at this company, I have been surplussed from a captain position, furloughed entirely for eighteen months, taken pay cuts, been harassed by members of your management team (see HR for details), overcome antiquated and sometimes barbaric training methods and yet I remain, despite opportunities to go elsewhere. Secondly, I have offered my services to this company many times and been rebuked every time. I offered to become a standards pilot, I offered to help with Safety (as I was a Chief of Safety in the Air Force), I attempted to assist with attaining what this company erroneously calls CRAF flying and most recently I offered, Mr Soaper and Mr Maloney individually, the use of my extensive training and experience as an operational and strategic level planner to overcome the scheduling difficulties we have month after month. My impression has always been that your management team’s desire is for the pilots in general and myself in particular to simply acquiesce to whatever demands are placed on us. There is a lot of broad and valuable education, training and experience in this pilot group which goes apparently intentionally unresourced.

Let’s talk about what your management has done to ABX Air, the community, its shareholders and its employees, including the pilots: you have taken away what were our aircraft, our maintenance, our flight control then promptly charged ABX for the use of those same resources at artificially high rates. We pay some of the highest lease rates in the industry on the very aircraft you simply took from us. While I realize this is all done internally using ATSG dollars and not real money, it allows the less savvy to claim and believe ABX is far less profitable and valuable than it in fact is. You lease aircraft to our direct competitors and use our mechanics to maintain them. While others may believe dry leasing is more profitable than ACMI, I do not! Perhaps the profit margin is higher because your unit costs are lower, but the overall profit is higher with ACMI because you make a profit on each letter therein! If that were not the case, you would have shutdown both ABX and ATI long ago. As I stated in my letter to John, once we were mentioned in the same breath as FedEx and UPS. Now, after your accession to the top post, we are losing valuable assets and work to the likes of Kalitta, Atlas, ATI, Omni, NAC and the regionals! I’m not talking solely about pilots: Forsythe, Woodford, schedulers, loadmasters, and many others. We have fallen to the bottom of the ACMI scum bucket! It is clear to me, we are not even attempting to compete: in Miami, Los Angeles, or Europe; or for military charters. I personally saw a letter where UPS asked us to fly four trips for them last fourth quarter out of Köln and Miami, your management declined! The national economy and air freight business is better than it has been in decades, yet here we sit: shrinking and withering on the vine. How many more millions could you have earned for the shareholders, if we actually pursued or just accepted business opportunities now available to us. If at least some of these business decisions were not done out of hatred for the pilots, I fear far worse causality exists. Thousands of former Airborne Express employees nationwide lost their jobs, the city and community of Wilmington have been financially harmed severely, not once but twice in the last ten years, were you not at the helm for each and every one of those ten years? How much personal loss did you assume? How does your income compare today with 2008?

Yeah what he said!

qiutong 08-31-2018 09:38 AM

You forgot to mention JH’s remark, “ATI, whose pilots did not support the strike, will get the remainder of the Amazon flying.” If that doesn’t show his bias against the ABX pilots, I don’t know what does......

woog315 08-31-2018 09:55 AM


Originally Posted by qiutong (Post 2665848)
You forgot to mention JH’s remark, “ATI, whose pilots did not support the strike, will get the remainder of the Amazon flying.” If that doesn’t show his bias against the ABX pilots, I don’t know what does......

Well ABX pilots opted to go on strike, they had to know there would be consequences. That has nothing to do with hating pilots, just consequences of ABX's choices as a pilot group.

Good letter, btw

Red Baron 08-31-2018 09:55 AM

Outstanding letter!

JustOvIt 08-31-2018 11:02 AM

The sad part is the lack of responsibility of the ATSG board of directors.
It’s one thing to hate your pilot group. But it’s another to turn away business. To shrink the business, and to waste hundreds of thousands of dollars hiring and training new hires to see them leave !!

JustOvIt 08-31-2018 11:07 AM

And this is the Brutal truth.


Brutally done! Very nice! It won’t matter. He still blames us for the strike... His decisions led to that.... His stubbornness, and intention to “not encourage bad behavior”. Rick and Starky had two separate settlement agreements to prevent that... he over-ruled.. He may never accept his culpability.... nobody at ATSG has ever accepted responsibility for anything. Point fingers and blame... small minds.

Their hatred of us is so universally manifested at every level of the organization that they don’t even recognize it as a primary motive for their stupidity.

The greatest cargo airline opportunity in 40 years, Amazon, falls at their feet, and they fight, and bicker, violate the contract, and try to take more from the pilots! Of course! What should we expect from a management team that has NO VISION!? Have they ever looked forward and projected significant market factors in the past? The pilot shortage was no surprise! Looking forward, having a great contract could ensure ABX’s ability to provide for AMZN but small minded crap contracts, and whip sawing, ensures ATSG’s failure. Our P/E is 60. AAWW’s is 7.... how long after we continue to shrink and lose CMI revenue does ATSG stock dive? It’s very likely a $2.00 stock!

I would have liked you to call out David Soaper! A proven two time loser that couldn’t create a profit with bankruptcy contracts at Comair or Southern. That PUTZ told us in CRM, February 2017, that he doesn’t care if ABX succeeds or fails, because HE gets paid either way! He continues to threaten to shut us down. We have 5 airplanes that are not being utilized (20 % of the fleet). Ridiculous! If you were an uneducated landscaper, common sense wouldn’t let you have 20% of your capital assets sitting idle!

He has no clue about what’s going on in the pilot job front, the quality of the guys we’ve gotten most recently is scary. Atlas just bent an airplane with an incompetent new hire, and its bound to happen here.

It’s obvious that his sole qualification to become airline management was marrying into the Comair (Muller) family. He’s using the same discernment at ABX by hiring friends and family. F.........is a family friend, has multiple alcohol related arrests, and would not even qualify to be a pilot here, because he can’t go to Canada! And he’s telling me what I’m worth?! He’s gonna save the company by taking away my lunch! They have no clue how to run this operation.
Their contract proposals are ridiculous, he’s trying to be a hero, refusing to accept the true costs of the Kalitta contract... fewer days of work a year, lost productivity with home basing, NO JRMing! They have to staff properly (what a concept). Soaper wants to give us Kalitta rates, but nothing else. Greedy, and stupid! We need a contract that can attract and retain pilots. He just doesn’t get it!

The two of them have chased out any talent that we once had. Woodford and Forsyth gone! The best of our new hires gone! The frustration level is demonstrated with our collapsed on-time performance. How the hell is Soaper still employed? Shocking!

You also failed to point out that this pilot group wants nothing more than to be successful, look forward to coming to work, and flying our asses off for a company that appreciates us. It would take very little to change our attitudes toward this place. We still have the express mentality that can wow our customers. Just have to get that jackass out of here. Hete, has the smarts to get it back on track, he just has to stop seeing red, when he looks at the pilots... OH! and merge the dan airlines, and clear out that useless and unsafe ATI culture.

Tumbl3weed 08-31-2018 11:24 AM

“You ask John many questions about what he is doing or can do to bring ABX back. I would ask you the same question.”
Well, let’s start with getting rid of Soaper.
-Failed at Comair and Southern
-threatens to furlough and then wants to blame the pilots for their inability to staff the airline
-surrounds himself with a no-talent management team lacking any leadership skills causing any talented people to leave...and I don’t mean pilots
-says “it doesn’t matter if ABX succeeds or fails, I still get paid” and then in the next breath says they need more productivity out of the pilot contract-Yes, that’s a good approach.
-finally, said fixing maintenance is his priority...OMG, it’s never been this bad in my 25 years with this company.

So let’s start by holding Soaper accountable for his failure to accomplish any positive operational changes

cargowarrior 08-31-2018 11:38 AM

At the rate of non-pilots leaving we won’t have to strike the office staff will put it out of business before we get the chance too.

qiutong 08-31-2018 11:51 AM


Originally Posted by woog315 (Post 2665858)
Well ABX pilots opted to go on strike, they had to know there would be consequences. That has nothing to do with hating pilots, just consequences of ABX's choices as a pilot group.

The consequences of the strike, were that the status quo was reestablished, and that should have been it. The strike was over, and JH lost. The fact that he then chose to stunt any growth of an airline, staffed with some of the industries more competent and experienced pilots, to staff ATI with less competent and lesser experienced pilots, I feel does show a bias toward ABX. He’s holding a grudge, and any thinking person can see that.

C7fr8dog 09-04-2018 05:14 AM

Strike
 

Originally Posted by qiutong (Post 2665954)
The consequences of the strike, were that the status quo was reestablished, and that should have been it. The strike was over, and JH lost. The fact that he then chose to stunt any growth of an airline, staffed with some of the industries more competent and experienced pilots, to staff ATI with less competent and lesser experienced pilots, I feel does show a bias toward ABX. He’s holding a grudge, and any thinking person can see that.

The fact is ABX Pilots didn't go on STRIKE because they were treated so well. Management has battled the Teamsters and pilots since the union was first established. It's here for a reason and it's going to stay. Along with that if pushed again we will strike again. We aren't afraid.

gumpscheck 09-04-2018 06:14 AM


Originally Posted by C7fr8dog (Post 2667873)
The fact is ABX Pilots didn't go on STRIKE because they were treated so well. Management has battled the Teamsters and pilots since the union was first established. It's here for a reason and it's going to stay. Along with that if pushed again we will strike again. We aren't afraid.

Right On Bro!!

Hang10 09-04-2018 04:57 PM

Am Ready To walk the Line! I understand Soaper was a bad crew scheduler to! And just keeps getting worse! Ask Joe-if I did my job like Soaper! Would I get a lot of stock options? How does the Board let this happen? Somebody has to be help responsible for the losses!

Industry Strnd 09-05-2018 10:15 AM

I wonder who is actually in charge? Tail wagging the dog here?

JustOvIt 09-09-2018 04:52 AM

Here's the folks on the Board ATSG
 
Clearly they are just as clueless as Soapy

Rademacher
Baudouin
John's
Peterson
Teets
Vorholt
Hete

motorclutch 09-09-2018 09:16 AM

Keep in mind: the chairman of the board, “Regional Randy” is Soapys sea daddy. He’s the one responsible for bringing havoc to ABX.

C7fr8dog 09-09-2018 12:03 PM


Originally Posted by motorclutch (Post 2671020)
Keep in mind: the chairman of the board, “Regional Randy” is Soapys sea daddy. He’s the one responsible for bringing havoc to ABX.

ONLY ABX/ATSG management could make an airline so miserable that nobody cares anymore what happens. At least we aren’t afraid of loosing our jobs now. In 2009 we gave 40% concessions. Every employee group was rewarded except the pilots. Management will try to have everyone believe that the strike was flight crews fault but even history will show you that happy employees do NOT strike. Employees that are treated well do not strike.
ATSG has done the complete opposite. They bought ATI with our money to use against us. They under staffed the airline on purpose so that our brothers dropped off the list and new hires could come in.
They tried with holding vacations. They agreed to a 40% concessionary contract in 2009 and now just want more even though it was our frozen pension that allowed the survival of ABX.
Now ATSG is profitable and refuses to even acknowledge us. They like to play that we are simply an ACMI carrier now. Why would anyone want to work for an ACMI carrier. Clearly it’s never anyone’s first choice. Now even in the ACMI world why would anyone want to work for an ACMI that has management that has a LONG history of a Lorenzo type management practices?? An ACMI where upgrades take 20+ years. An ACMI where there is NEGATIVE growth. An ACMI where the parent company leases your assets directly to your competition. An ACMI that quite frankly is not even prepared to work with the customers it has.
ABX is an airline that has a proven failed management team at the helm.
ABX AIR is now the Tintantic. Management is the poorly redesigned hull that used short cuts due to cost. We the pilots at ABX are the passengers. There is nothing we can do to save this ship. It’s all up to people with a higher pay grade than mine.
#ATSG #ABX AIR

Jurassic Jet 09-09-2018 01:03 PM


Originally Posted by C7fr8dog (Post 2671105)
ABX AIR is now the Titanic.

I think that is coming home to roost with most anyone that is looking for a job. I've heard only 1 person showed up for class last week. The word is out on this place. The failure of ABX will lie directly at the feet of Soapy. Of course, he is very familiar with being at the helm of failed airlines. He has somewhat of a history of it.

#ComairPartDeux

motorclutch 09-09-2018 01:14 PM

Even better revenge....once this place goes into the memory books, all of the remaining haters of pilots at ABX can blame us for losing their jobs. ABX HR better stock up on unemployment handouts for distribution in the near future.

Tumbl3weed 09-09-2018 01:38 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Attachment 3888
-Believe in Something

JustOvIt 09-09-2018 02:23 PM

Hete
 
Get ready to explain to your stockholders what’s going to happen.

And don’t worry , your job will be just fine like 2016 NOT !!!

Keepcalm 09-09-2018 07:00 PM


Originally Posted by Tumbl3weed (Post 2671137)
Attachment 3888
-Believe in Something

he couldn't run a lawn mowing business

Whitesnake 09-10-2018 08:03 AM


Originally Posted by C7fr8dog (Post 2671105)
ONLY ABX/ATSG management could make an airline so miserable that nobody cares anymore what happens. At least we aren’t afraid of loosing our jobs now. In 2009 we gave 40% concessions. Every employee group was rewarded except the pilots. Management will try to have everyone believe that the strike was flight crews fault but even history will show you that happy employees do NOT strike. Employees that are treated well do not strike.
ATSG has done the complete opposite. They bought ATI with our money to use against us. They under staffed the airline on purpose so that our brothers dropped off the list and new hires could come in.
They tried with holding vacations. They agreed to a 40% concessionary contract in 2009 and now just want more even though it was our frozen pension that allowed the survival of ABX.
Now ATSG is profitable and refuses to even acknowledge us. They like to play that we are simply an ACMI carrier now. Why would anyone want to work for an ACMI carrier. Clearly it’s never anyone’s first choice. Now even in the ACMI world why would anyone want to work for an ACMI that has management that has a LONG history of a Lorenzo type management practices?? An ACMI where upgrades take 20+ years. An ACMI where there is NEGATIVE growth. An ACMI where the parent company leases your assets directly to your competition. An ACMI that quite frankly is not even prepared to work with the customers it has.
ABX is an airline that has a proven failed management team at the helm.
ABX AIR is now the Tintantic. Management is the poorly redesigned hull that used short cuts due to cost. We the pilots at ABX are the passengers. There is nothing we can do to save this ship. It’s all up to people with a higher pay grade than mine.
#ATSG #ABX AIR

You hit the nail on the head with the Lorenzo comparison.
Isn’t that a swear word ?

C7fr8dog 09-10-2018 01:56 PM

What’s ABX have for a new hire?
 

Originally Posted by Whitesnake (Post 2671439)
You hit the nail on the head with the Lorenzo comparison.
Isn’t that a swear word ?


1-ZERO GROWTH-negative growth
2-NO UPGRADES-unless you’ve been here over 20 years then only maybe.
3-WHIPSAWED BY MGMNT-repeatedly
4-NO HOME BASING-CVG Domicile. Commute with no protection.
5-NO KCM-sister Airline with Home basing has it tho.
6-NO HOTEL POINTS-non-potable water in MTY Hotel
7-LOW 1st YR PAY
8-LEASES AC DIRECTLY TO COMPETITION- Ameri-Jet, Atlantic West, and the list goes on.
9-NO PASS BENEFITS FOR TRAVEL
ALL THIS EQUALS= ????

You make the choice but I know what I’d do.

Hang10 09-12-2018 03:25 AM

How’s is Soaper in charge? He could not get a job as a assistant manager at Taco Bell?

JustOvIt 09-13-2018 06:22 PM

Bid Awards
 
This place is such a cesspool. Oct bid awards came out around 5 pm
Hour later scheduling advises us they need time to adjust them tomorrow morning. What a joke.

Status quo violation ???

nitefr8dog 09-14-2018 02:30 AM


Originally Posted by JustOvIt (Post 2673867)
This place is such a cesspool. Oct bid awards came out around 5 pm
Hour later scheduling advises us they need time to adjust them tomorrow morning. What a joke.

Status quo violation ???

No....just incompetence

thesandbox 09-14-2018 04:40 AM


Originally Posted by JustOvIt (Post 2673867)
This place is such a cesspool. Oct bid awards came out around 5 pm
Hour later scheduling advises us they need time to adjust them tomorrow morning. What a joke.

Status quo violation ???


.

Wow....so early....at Atlas the bid package doesn't even come out until the 18th. We might know next month the week before. :cool:

gumpscheck 09-14-2018 06:41 AM


Originally Posted by thesandbox (Post 2673993)
.

Wow....so early....at Atlas the bid package doesn't even come out until the 18th. We might know next month the week before. :cool:

ABX has to contractually publish the Line Bid Awards by the 13th of the month.

But changing the subject, it is clear that Soapy and JH are ready to shut down ABX Air. DHL and Amazon should be forewarned.

nitefr8dog 09-14-2018 11:29 AM


Originally Posted by thesandbox (Post 2673993)
.

Wow....so early....at Atlas the bid package doesn't even come out until the 18th. We might know next month the week before. :cool:

by contract to the crews on the 5th due back on the 13th and published by 1700z. Early in the month works in the company favor too...as its usually screwed up and it gives them time for the revisions. Keep in mind at ABX scheduling stuff is done on a piece of slate with a chunk of coal...I guess it all depends on what you negotiated...

Jurassic Jet 09-14-2018 12:23 PM


Originally Posted by nitefr8dog (Post 2674217)
Keep in mind at ABX scheduling stuff is done on a piece of slate with a chunk of coal

I've heard they recently acquired an Abacus at a garage sale.

tiredofjrm 09-14-2018 05:19 PM

Negotiations are going nowhere. Thank you Soaper.
DHL cancelled 2 more runs. I’m not sure who to thank here..
It might be time to ask NMB to be released. At least we go out on our terms.

nitefr8dog 09-14-2018 05:40 PM


Originally Posted by Hang10 (Post 2672648)
How’s is Soaper in charge? He could not get a job as a assistant manager at Taco Bell?

How? He specializes in driving airlines into ground until the wheels come off....its all he knows

JustOvIt 09-14-2018 05:52 PM

Chief Pilot
 
Assured us that the bid awards were just fine. No problems.

Interesting enough two hours later a revision showing just over 25 folks October awards were WRONG. WRONG

Incompetence on every level.

Those who continue to think this is a carrier airline or stepping stone
RUN RUN RUN

Jurassic Jet 09-14-2018 06:01 PM


Originally Posted by tiredofjrm (Post 2674379)
DHL cancelled 2 more runs. I’m not sure who to thank here..

So once JFK and EWR are gone, that will put us at a whopping grand total of 6 departures a night out of CVG for DHL. Where have I seen this kind of drawdown before? Hmmm, let me think.

motorclutch 09-14-2018 06:14 PM

All to be completed by Jan 1—the same date VP Baloney gave our DO of an additional proffer if he would pull his captain bid and stay in his position until then. Everyone of these guys is inept even when they lie! Clown show on the nth degree.

Formerbuspilot 09-14-2018 06:43 PM


Originally Posted by Jurassic Jet (Post 2674403)
So once JFK and EWR are gone, that will put us at a whopping grand total of 6 departures a night out of CVG for DHL. Where have I seen this kind of drawdown before? Hmmm, let me think.

ABX.... Welcome to the barrel, enjoy your turn.

nitefr8dog 09-14-2018 07:54 PM


Originally Posted by Formerbuspilot (Post 2674428)
ABX.... Welcome to the barrel, enjoy your turn.

You think Astar is the only one who struggled....we laid off more pilots than Astar had total! This is our 2nd time in the DHL barrel...115 airframes down to 13 in 2009...


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