Originally Posted by zerozero

Sure! It seems logical, even obvious, to think safety concerns might increase pressure on the company to get a deal done. Right. NOW.

Alas, just look at the facts for your answer.

Originally Posted by maxjet

It amazes me to read that posters are trying to blame management for the events leading up to this crash. Short of written, direct evidence, indicating that senior management mandated pilots be forced through training, followed by instructor testimony that grades were altered upon direction of said management, they will never be held accountable. Nor should they ever, as I don’t think they are the least bit liable.

The fault falls squarely on the shoulders of the training department, FAA oversight, and the Union. From the director, to the sim instructors, to the check airmen, they all worked in concert, innocently enough, to put these 2 online. I have seen this at other airlines. It starts simply enough. Due to lack of pilots, Less capable and mature pilots are hired. Training program is not designed for these sub par pilots.Training director sees large percentage of failures, as training program has failed to adjust to the way unseasoned and sub par pilots learn. This effects hiring and budgets. Mandate comes down to, “train to proficiency. With unlimited sims, just about anyone can be trained to take the check-ride. Once through that gate it is many hours of IOE and they are deemed proficient to fly. At that moment they are probably ready to fly as long as nothing they haven’t seen multiple times in training happens. Put that pilot online for 6 months with double crews where said pilot never flys and bam! You are back to where you started in no time. Pilot goes to training again and cycle starts over. Where is the FAA oversight in all of this? Where is the Union oversight in al of this?

AAWW is far from the only airline with this problem. Our unions need to step in and stop this because clearly, the companies, nor the FAA has any desire to do so. For the director of training to step into this would probably result in only a change of the director. There are simple albeit costly solutions to this problem. I wonder how many incidents and accidents will occur before they are implemented. Good luck to us all.

Originally Posted by Elevation

So the crux of the debate here is not whether something would work, but whether it would work enough in an acceptable timeframe. I understand the doubt. So let's try approaching this from a different angle.

What's a good reason NOT to make a significant drive on the safety front? What opportunities do we squander and how do we harm the welfare of our crews in doing this compared to our current course of action? This isn't a shot across anyone's bow; I just don't see the rationale to avoid fighting for crew safety. I also dont see the rationale for working for safety improvements through back channels. What am I missing?

Originally Posted by MySaabStory

Is the international DH business or better?

Originally Posted by Turbine1

Now that attrition has more than doubled over our usual levels it appears it’s become self evident to even the most head in the sand pilots here that there’s no contract coming, only a breakup and sale, bankruptcy or like Trans States with their like minded draconian management a complete shutdown of the airline.

Originally Posted by C17B74

Doh! Bankruptcy got it, shutdown got it. Aside from that, using the breakup and sale scenario is there any potential buyer for Polar at the minimum? (Hypothetically if there was, isn’t the Atlas certificate tied with Polar or the other way around. Buy one, get the other or am I totally way off base with that summation?)