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Old 01-12-2019, 06:09 AM   #41  
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Originally Posted by Tango Uniform View Post
Maybe he was referring to his favorite body spray?
Haha. Touché

To get back to Southern Air, the pilots I know that fly there are nothing less than great pilots and people, despite current work rules and pay challenges. It may work for some but it wasn’t a place for me.
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Old 01-12-2019, 08:35 AM   #42  
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Axe vs ask is racist? No, it's called being educated. Get out of here with this snow flake "woke" bull crap.
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Old 01-12-2019, 09:17 AM   #43  
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Originally Posted by Tango Uniform View Post
Maybe he was referring to his favorite body spray?
What makes you think that subject HR rep wasn't a "she" ? I just might have to report your post as being sexist.
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Old 01-12-2019, 09:21 AM   #44  
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Originally Posted by No Land 3 View Post
Axe vs ask is racist? No, it's called being educated. Get out of here with this snow flake "woke" bull crap.
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Old 01-12-2019, 02:21 PM   #45  
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What makes you think that subject HR rep wasn't a "she" ? I just might have to report your post as being sexist.
I apologize please change “his” to “Shim” 😁
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Old 01-13-2019, 08:13 AM   #46  
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Originally Posted by WhipWhitaker View Post
Are you an Atlas pilot? Are you still here? Regionals are hiring. My QOL here is infinity better than the regional I left and so is the pay. For a young dude this place isn’t that bad, and a good place to hang while you wait for purple and brown. YMMV
You must have an extremely unusual QOL to think Atlas is better than a regional…

1. Does your regional have line protection that paid awarded line value in the event of sick days, schedule changes, or training?
Atlas does not.
2. Does your regional have a ridiculously low 50 hour minimum for the entire first year?
Atlas does.
3. Does your regional pay a ridiculously low flat rate of $1,600/month in training?
Atlas does.
4. Does your regional have a signing bonus?
Not at Atlas!
5. Does your regional sue your pilot group more than once in order to delay or completely prevent your ability to negotiate a contract?
Atlas sued their own pilots twice.
6. Does your regional have contractual provisions that could result in you being on the road up to 40 days in a row?
Atlas does.
7. Does your regional pay less than 60% of what their regional counterparts were paid?
Atlas pays far less than other ACMI carriers do and far, far less than what FedEx and UPS pays (who management likes to compare us to for every index EXCEPT for bay, benefits, and work rules).
8. Does your regional ignore part 117 rest rules when flying 14 and 16 hour long haul trips that wreck your Circadian rhythm?
Atlas does.
9. Does your regional allow you to negotiate under section 6 negotiation parameters for a new contract more often than once every 20+ years?
Atlas does not.
10. Does your regional have a provision in their contract that allowed the company to buy another airline and then merge (or "amalgamate") contracts in order to avoid ever having to negotiate a new CBA with the pilot group?
Atlas does.
11. Does your regional dock your pay with imputed income in order to position you for work?
Atlas does.
12. Does your regional pay you for sitting reserve at home?
Atlas will not.

These are all things that Atlas does that are fairly non-standard throughout the entire airline industry, yet pilots contort themselves into pretzel shapes defending or ignoring these work rules in a vain attempt to justify working here. Yes Atlas and Southern both fly big shiny planes to far away places and the pay can EVENTUALLY exceed that of a regional, but it is amazing to me that pilots cannot see past this to the disgusting reality that lies just beneath the surface.

The rational that Atlas/Southern is a great place to work justified on the basis of the big planes, trips to the back side of the globe, on-board catering, or the opportunity to get a free type rating and then skip town the next day free of a training contract (happens more than you'd think) is an absolutely irrational, shortsighted, and greedy set of reasons upon which to make an important career decision.

Yet for some inexplicable reason, many pilots feel that if they make a few bucks more than a regional, are able to get a free type rating, and log some heavy jet time that justifies ignoring the clear fact that they are entering a war at Atlas and they remain blissfully unaware (or uncaring) of the battle that rages all around them. I understand that Atlas is a stepping stone for many pilots, and most of the guys who drift through Atlas are aware of where Atlas stands in the grand scheme of ACMI carriers and where we stand in terms of contract negotiations. They uphold the contract, they participate in union activities, and they realistically portray Atlas in their online posts.

But, people who compare Atlas to Key Lime, or Mokulele Airlines, or Joes Flying Circus and then rave about how good life at Atlas is does neither himself or anybody else any favors. Using only pay and jet size is a shortsighted and unrealistic way to compare jobs. Flying a heavy passenger jet internationally for $137 an hour with no pay protections at all is so far below industry standard that we serve only the managements of all other airlines in the world as a low point from which to begin negotiations.

So get your head our of your pocketbook and take a good look at the industry that you now fly for. It is the big picture that you’ll be looking for and you clearly haven’t seen it yet.

Know your worth. Know your industry. Know your contract.

Only then will you know where you stand.

And, even after completely understanding where Atlas stands in this job market, and if you have a clear and realistic understanding of what a job at Atlas is all about AND are still willing to come here despite all of the negatives and to be a part of the solution instead of being a part of the problem, then you would be welcome here
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Old 01-13-2019, 12:26 PM   #47  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC8DRIVER View Post
You must have an extremely unusual QOL to think Atlas is better than a regional…

1. Does your regional have line protection that paid awarded line value in the event of sick days, schedule changes, or training?
Atlas does not.
2. Does your regional have a ridiculously low 50 hour minimum for the entire first year?
Atlas does.
3. Does your regional pay a ridiculously low flat rate of $1,600/month in training?
Atlas does.
4. Does your regional have a signing bonus?
Not at Atlas!
5. Does your regional sue your pilot group more than once in order to delay or completely prevent your ability to negotiate a contract?
Atlas sued their own pilots twice.
6. Does your regional have contractual provisions that could result in you being on the road up to 40 days in a row?
Atlas does.
7. Does your regional pay less than 60% of what their regional counterparts were paid?
Atlas pays far less than other ACMI carriers do and far, far less than what FedEx and UPS pays (who management likes to compare us to for every index EXCEPT for bay, benefits, and work rules).
8. Does your regional ignore part 117 rest rules when flying 14 and 16 hour long haul trips that wreck your Circadian rhythm?
Atlas does.
9. Does your regional allow you to negotiate under section 6 negotiation parameters for a new contract more often than once every 20+ years?
Atlas does not.
10. Does your regional have a provision in their contract that allowed the company to buy another airline and then merge (or "amalgamate") contracts in order to avoid ever having to negotiate a new CBA with the pilot group?
Atlas does.
11. Does your regional dock your pay with imputed income in order to position you for work?
Atlas does.
12. Does your regional pay you for sitting reserve at home?
Atlas will not.

These are all things that Atlas does that are fairly non-standard throughout the entire airline industry, yet pilots contort themselves into pretzel shapes defending or ignoring these work rules in a vain attempt to justify working here. Yes Atlas and Southern both fly big shiny planes to far away places and the pay can EVENTUALLY exceed that of a regional, but it is amazing to me that pilots cannot see past this to the disgusting reality that lies just beneath the surface.

The rational that Atlas/Southern is a great place to work justified on the basis of the big planes, trips to the back side of the globe, on-board catering, or the opportunity to get a free type rating and then skip town the next day free of a training contract (happens more than you'd think) is an absolutely irrational, shortsighted, and greedy set of reasons upon which to make an important career decision.

Yet for some inexplicable reason, many pilots feel that if they make a few bucks more than a regional, are able to get a free type rating, and log some heavy jet time that justifies ignoring the clear fact that they are entering a war at Atlas and they remain blissfully unaware (or uncaring) of the battle that rages all around them. I understand that Atlas is a stepping stone for many pilots, and most of the guys who drift through Atlas are aware of where Atlas stands in the grand scheme of ACMI carriers and where we stand in terms of contract negotiations. They uphold the contract, they participate in union activities, and they realistically portray Atlas in their online posts.

But, people who compare Atlas to Key Lime, or Mokulele Airlines, or Joes Flying Circus and then rave about how good life at Atlas is does neither himself or anybody else any favors. Using only pay and jet size is a shortsighted and unrealistic way to compare jobs. Flying a heavy passenger jet internationally for $137 an hour with no pay protections at all is so far below industry standard that we serve only the managements of all other airlines in the world as a low point from which to begin negotiations.

So get your head our of your pocketbook and take a good look at the industry that you now fly for. It is the big picture that you’ll be looking for and you clearly haven’t seen it yet.

Know your worth. Know your industry. Know your contract.

Only then will you know where you stand.

And, even after completely understanding where Atlas stands in this job market, and if you have a clear and realistic understanding of what a job at Atlas is all about AND are still willing to come here despite all of the negatives and to be a part of the solution instead of being a part of the problem, then you would be welcome here

To quote another disgruntled employee, Allegiant is hiring. Do the rest of us a favor and quit, go to your regional of choice, enjoy that bonus and quality of life. This place owns so much real estate inside you’re head it’s pathetic, it’s just a job. I’ll be enjoying my month off...22 days more in a row than I ever got off at my regional.
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Old 01-13-2019, 12:41 PM   #48  
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Originally Posted by WhipWhitaker View Post
To quote another disgruntled employee.
To be honest WW, you appear to be the only gruntled employee that I know of.
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Old 01-13-2019, 12:58 PM   #49  
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Originally Posted by Atrasaty View Post
To be honest WW, you appear to be the only gruntled employee that I know of.
I know plenty. No one will say a half decent word about this place online because the same 6 highly disgruntled people that blow up GCcomms daily love to tear them a new one for daring to disagree with their group think, instead of looking at the reasons why it might work for someone. (young, no family, heavy type to get to Fedex faster, better pay than regional, live in a base and no gateway or commute, fun layovers.) So yeah dude, I’m mostly gruntled.
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Old 01-13-2019, 05:35 PM   #50  
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At Atlas, we do it cheaper than the other guys... and we’re happy to do it! It’s just a job to us!
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