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Old 12-14-2018, 09:37 AM   #11  
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K4 has applied to the FAA to go to the next level of aircraft expansion. This will require a commitment from the company in the form of more management and support personnel. They are making that commitment.

My opinion only. There has never been a better relationship between the Union and the company. Pilot life is very good at this time degrading from great before the expansion to just very good. This is because of the workload. Great for the wallet but can get a bit tiring. I do not expect to see huge pay raises in the next contract. I do see quality of life issues and retirement being addressed. Management seems to be aware that they will need to be able to retain their pilots if the market continues to prosper.

Those unhappy at Atlas. Please consider coming over to K4. We could use your experience. Don’t get too offput on the math as far as upgrade goes.

We have a lot of FO’s who will not be able to upgrade for quite a while. Not because they are not good pilots but because they lack experience in flight operations and have not done much to correct that.

There are also openings at this time in the training department. Recently that has become a lucrative way to go.
If I were on 2nd year pay on the 747 I probably wouldn't jump to K4 just because that's ton of movement and you'd only be a few months away from Captain at Atlas. A 767 FO might as well jump unless there's an imminent upgrade coming. If I were on first year or considering the two I'd pick K4. Atlas jobs are more readily available for obvious reasons. If I were on the bottom of either list I'd be wanting to jump to FedEx or UPS ASAP.
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Old 12-14-2018, 11:56 AM   #12  
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If I were on 2nd year pay on the 747 I probably wouldn't jump to K4 just because that's ton of movement and you'd only be a few months away from Captain at Atlas. A 767 FO might as well jump unless there's an imminent upgrade coming. If I were on first year or considering the two I'd pick K4. Atlas jobs are more readily available for obvious reasons. If I were on the bottom of either list I'd be wanting to jump to FedEx or UPS ASAP.
The upgrade at Kalitta is around 1 year. The upgrade at Atlas is 3, and it’s getting closer to 4.
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Old 12-14-2018, 12:09 PM   #13  
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The upgrade at Kalitta is around 1 year. The upgrade at Atlas is 3, and it’s getting closer to 4.
The 767 upgrade at Atlas was just over 2 years when I left Atlas 5 months ago. If there's been no 767 upgrades since it might be closer to 3, but upgrades are more heavy in the Spring. Lord knows they've lost 767 Captains since July. One is in my crashpad. The 747 upgrade was probably around 4 years. I bet that number goes way up.

If we're talking where to go if you're not on either list it's K4. If you've been at Atlas for longer than a year I'd just upgrade on the 767 so you're getting PIC and a new Type. Either way your goal is to leave for FedEx, Delta, UPS... etc.

Jumping from Atlas to K4 is really just a lateral move considering that eventually Atlas will get a new contract and K4 will be haggling with Connie again. That's once you've been at Atlas a year or more.... On Probation it's a no brainer to leave.
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Old 12-15-2018, 04:25 AM   #14  
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The 767 upgrade at Atlas was just over 2 years when I left Atlas 5 months ago. If there's been no 767 upgrades since it might be closer to 3, but upgrades are more heavy in the Spring. Lord knows they've lost 767 Captains since July. One is in my crashpad. The 747 upgrade was probably around 4 years. I bet that number goes way up.



If we're talking where to go if you're not on either list it's K4. If you've been at Atlas for longer than a year I'd just upgrade on the 767 so you're getting PIC and a new Type. Either way your goal is to leave for FedEx, Delta, UPS... etc.

Jumping from Atlas to K4 is really just a lateral move considering that eventually Atlas will get a new contract and K4 will be haggling with Connie again. That's once you've been at Atlas a year or more.... On Probation it's a no brainer to leave.

The -400 is pushing 10 years now that the 767 CA's are coming off seat lock.

A new hire today may never see 767 CA for at least 5-6 years. There are nearly 300 FO's just on the 767 in CVG waiting for it. We would have to double the fleet for a new hire to see CA anytime soon.

Come on over !
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Old 12-15-2018, 08:38 AM   #15  
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... Jumping from Atlas to K4 is really just a lateral move considering that eventually Atlas will get a new contract ...
At this point, a move to Kalitta would probably be a significant step up for more than half of the pilots already at Atlas.

Other than Atlas recruiters "saying" that a contract is just around the corner, what evidence do you have that a contract is anywhere in sight? When you say "eventually" you're talking about ten years or more, Right?

It will be many, many, many years before the Atlas pilots are able to vote on a contract. Oh, maybe Atlas will throw the pilots a bone with an insulting few percent raise to redirect the ire of the pilot group and allow management to say that they are "offering substantial improvements" to the pilots, but I can guarantee that their offer will be sub-Kalitta or Omni if and when it comes. Until then, they will continue to limp along with the core group stuck there working for slave wages and the new hires churning through the training department / type rating factory just as fast as they can.
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Old 12-15-2018, 09:04 AM   #16  
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At this point, a move to Kalitta would probably be a significant step up for more than half of the pilots already at Atlas.

Other than Atlas recruiters "saying" that a contract is just around the corner, what evidence do you have that a contract is anywhere in sight? When you say "eventually" you're talking about ten years or more, Right?

It will be many, many, many years before the Atlas pilots are able to vote on a contract. Oh, maybe Atlas will throw the pilots a bone with an insulting few percent raise to redirect the ire of the pilot group and allow management to say that they are "offering substantial improvements" to the pilots, but I can guarantee that their offer will be sub-Kalitta or Omni if and when it comes. Until then, they will continue to limp along with the core group stuck there working for slave wages and the new hires churning through the training department / type rating factory just as fast as they can.
If I had to guess I'd say 2 or 3 years. 5 or 10 years is possible but I doubt that happens unless the hiring boom stops. Then FedEx and American and Delta and... Everyone will have a new contract and Atlas will be a few steps behind and K4 will be negotiating with Connie (or whoever) for a new contract with their Captains working 4 months a year with 0 retirement.

Your management are as horrible as they get but you know Connie is just as bad... You won't be able to crew the 737 this year and I bet you have trouble crewing the 767 next year. When I left Atlas they were stacking the 767 with Captains because they couldn't fill the classes at FO rates. Southern is getting the absolute bottom of the barrel right now on the 737 and the incidents were on the rise when I left.

If I were at Atlas I wouldn't leave a place where I was getting or about to get PIC to go to K4. That's after the first year. My goal wouldn't be K4 despite it being a slightly better job. Everyone at Atlas knows at least 3 people at FedEx and UPS right now. Probably Delta too. Hit them up for Recs, beat up those job fairs, and get that 1000 PIC. Finish the degree... Those of you who know me PM me for advice!
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Old 12-15-2018, 09:24 AM   #17  
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with their Captains working 4 months a year with 0 retirement.
Huh? Look man, lots of us have all the quals that FedEx wants and more. Everybody is going to take the very best job that they are able to get. Maybe you could take a break from beating up on the JV squad and get back to dating the prom queen.
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Old 12-15-2018, 12:13 PM   #18  
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I have nothing but resentment for anyone going to Atlas or Southern at this point.
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Old 12-15-2018, 01:02 PM   #19  
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I have nothing but resentment for anyone going to Atlas or Southern at this point.
Allegiant is hiring.
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