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JonnyKnoxville

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Old 12-27-2018, 01:31 PM   #51  
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Originally Posted by Globemaster2827 View Post
Nobody wants to look at them-self in the mirror after sprinting through an airport to make their next commercial connection on work day 28 of their current month and realize that they are a Teamster.... Or Alpa... Or IPA... Isn't it easier to just fail and blame someone else? The "teamsters UNION" is made up of its members.

Good post.
I beg to differ. We are members, but “the union” consists of guys who sign non-disclosure agreements, meet with execs, and make decisions among themselves that alter the direction and the relationship with the extremely hostile management for which we work. 98% of us get no say as to what “the union” does.

I’m not saying I disagree with any decisions they’ve made up to this point, but how can you disagree when you don’t have any information other than what we are told? So, no, we are not The Union. There has to be a lot of trust involved, and I feel like we do give that trust, but at the end of the day we’re only members of the union. Not decision makers.
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Old 12-27-2018, 02:00 PM   #52  
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oh, sudden impact, how we have missed you and your theories.
... Not ... !!
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Old 12-27-2018, 02:09 PM   #53  
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Weak unions like SWAPA, IPA and IBT are easy for the company to manipulate and delay...
... so you're saying that Southwest and UPS have weak unions and poor contracts? What universe do you live in?

You're making it easy to disregard your posts ...
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Old 12-27-2018, 09:11 PM   #54  
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I beg to differ. We are members, but “the union” consists of guys who sign non-disclosure agreements, meet with execs, and make decisions among themselves that alter the direction and the relationship with the extremely hostile management for which we work. 98% of us get no say as to what “the union” does.

I’m not saying I disagree with any decisions they’ve made up to this point, but how can you disagree when you don’t have any information other than what we are told? So, no, we are not The Union. There has to be a lot of trust involved, and I feel like we do give that trust, but at the end of the day we’re only members of the union. Not decision makers.
This is a common complaint. Rightfully so.

Particularly after the passage of an amendment (FPL) that affects how they pay themselves was buried. How they have directed all union social media to a facebook page that isn't an official contact point to the union that also restricts which members can access it let alone the ongoing security issues there, removed access to air things by membership on a private union web forum, restricted questions on crew calls to pre-approved issues, plus a few other things that are not quite legal on a few levels determined by a recent court judgment, let alone misleading members in a direction that might find themselves getting section 19 (fired) on leaderships insinuations versus facts.

While I might sound like a company stooge, I have spent decades trying to keep our guys employed and not doing stupid things proven to get them burned and keeping our leadership honest. It's a set out game that our current leadership is happy to burn you at a whim while they compensate themselves well during it. Collateral damage they don't care about under this administration.

Our current leadership says everything is OK and AUDITED at the highest levels, but this recent hidden determination of the outcome of $1.7+ million dollar felony level embezzlement under Joint Council 041 leadership of which 1224 is part of says something different. NO JAIL TIME or submission to the criminal courts, just a retirement and never to take part again in the union sentence.


Despite this, I'm advocating Teamsters knowing what I know of ALPA while having been a volunteer there also. ALPA has a lot of dirty secrets also, but better kept.

Anyhow, look into the vested interests of our leadership back on the union site under the LM-2 reports posted on their forums on who is getting paid what. That is unless they have deleted them recently.

The forums are still open, although only ONE non-Atlas moderator is provided to approve posts Atlas member posts. The Atlas EXCO has removed all of our moderators.
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Old 12-27-2018, 10:04 PM   #55  
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... Not ... !!
Just how many MED leave days do you have left or are you just getting the membership donated MED days selectively granted by the EXCO as repayment for your statements at the expense of others getting them?

Self interest first ???????????????

As a cancer, gunshot, TB , and etc survivor never touching the donated MED bank, I among others are curious if your self motivated for this particular union administration?


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I'm not advocating a union change. Just a change in leadership.Current leadership actions has guaranteed at best an arbitration over the next two years or a Sect 6 over the next 4-6 years.
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Old 12-28-2018, 02:24 AM   #56  
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I see nothing has changed since I left.
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Old 12-28-2018, 04:42 AM   #57  
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I see nothing has changed since I left.
Unfortunately, every pilot group has their special 1%. Even with different screen names, they can’t hide their crazy.
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Old 12-28-2018, 07:43 AM   #58  
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This intra-Union fight is getting too personal. Take it to PMs.
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Old 12-28-2018, 02:27 PM   #59  
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Make no mistake, management's amalgamation plan has never been about taking an alternative path. It has been a conduit for delay. Win or lose, management will only negotiate the next CBA when they have no other choice but to do so. Furthermore, allowing the amalgamation path to take place without a fight ensures zero future at this airline. IF management wins both of the arbitrations, there is no longer any point in ever thinking this will be anything other than the bottom feeder of the industry where management buys airline after airline to perpetually avoid all negotiations. Giving up on this fight for a false perception of a quicker path is giving up on your career.
This is one route they will could take. I'm betting they will try to bypass the union leadership and present our pilot group with an increase in wages, a few minor changes to work rules and status quo on everything else. All while yelling "LET THEM VOTE!!!"


Same thing that was done at Omni and Kalitta.


Whatever the path, Atlas Air is not a employee friendly place to hang your hat.
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Old 12-28-2018, 10:37 PM   #60  
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This is one route they will could take. I'm betting they will try to bypass the union leadership and present our pilot group with an increase in wages, a few minor changes to work rules and status quo on everything else. All while yelling "LET THEM VOTE!!!"


Same thing that was done at Omni and Kalitta.


Whatever the path, Atlas Air is not a employee friendly place to hang your hat.
Neither is Amazon/DHL and I'm willing to bet they want to keep wages down also and are willing to drag this on also or start moving planes to other carriers similar to what they did during the Atlas - Polar merger (whipsawing). I do agree they will try to go to the membership directly. That's in the old playbook and used often.

While our current leadership, which includes the guy your responding to, use the propaganda of "the company is suing the membership" for sympathy. They failed to mention we conducted an illegal work action in one case despite being warned by long term committee members (luckily we didn't get fined this time as other unions have - just told go back to work) and sued again due to never completing the company's grievance on arbitration. We just ignored it and of course lost that court case and ordered to complete the grievance process where we still wait for the arbiters decision. Just what did the EXCO expect the company to do to those actions, come crying to them? The EXCO new we would be headed to court by ignoring it and the court subsequently made us go thru the process later anyway. Wasting more time ( @1 year) thinking it was leverage somehow while the metal keeps moving anyway? I'm guessing arbitration and not Section 6 will be the award by arbiter reading our CBA section 1. I imagine Southerns is no better but can't say for certain at the moment. Although Sect. 6 would be the best leverage for us all. I just don't see it in the cards looking at language and history of past awards.

We need to stop repeating the failures of the past Atlas-Polar merger again. Similar failed tactics being used again. I believe only two on the ExCo were here to remember those days and only one of them was actually doing union work which was mostly lobbying ALPA and having parties for their favor which ultimately landed us at Teamsters for their actions when Atlas members retaliated against ALPA's spurning us for being ACMI. The remaining ExCo members, just being new guys so to speak, not having experienced the past merger relying on the Chairs side of the story which is as reliable as our POTUS statements.

While we all have a little bit of the below video, most of us realize our limitations and gravitate towards safety. It's in our training.

Then we have those that wind up in leadership from time to time and screw up decades of dedicated committee members work and say "Nailed it!" as everything burns down around them.

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