Originally Posted by scrupulous

Neither is Amazon/DHL and I'm willing to bet they want to keep wages down also and are willing to drag this on also or start moving planes to other carriers similar to what they did during the Atlas - Polar merger (whipsawing). I do agree they will try to go to the membership directly. That's in the old playbook and used often.

While our current leadership, which includes the guy your responding to, use the propaganda of "the company is suing the membership" for sympathy. They failed to mention we conducted an illegal work action in one case despite being warned by long term committee members (luckily we didn't get fined this time as other unions have - just told go back to work) and sued again due to never completing the company's grievance on arbitration. We just ignored it and of course lost that court case and ordered to complete the grievance process where we still wait for the arbiters decision. Just what did the EXCO expect the company to do to those actions, come crying to them? The EXCO new we would be headed to court by ignoring it and the court subsequently made us go thru the process later anyway. Wasting more time ( @1 year) thinking it was leverage somehow while the metal keeps moving anyway? I'm guessing arbitration and not Section 6 will be the award by arbiter reading our CBA section 1. I imagine Southerns is no better but can't say for certain at the moment. Although Sect. 6 would be the best leverage for us all. I just don't see it in the cards looking at language and history of past awards.

We need to stop repeating the failures of the past Atlas-Polar merger again. Similar failed tactics being used again. I believe only two on the ExCo were here to remember those days and only one of them was actually doing union work which was mostly lobbying ALPA and having parties for their favor which ultimately landed us at Teamsters for their actions when Atlas members retaliated against ALPA's spurning us for being ACMI. The remaining ExCo members, just being new guys so to speak, not having experienced the past merger relying on the Chairs side of the story which is as reliable as our POTUS statements.

While we all have a little bit of the below video, most of us realize our limitations and gravitate towards safety. It's in our training.

Then we have those that wind up in leadership from time to time and screw up decades of dedicated committee members work and say "Nailed it!" as everything burns down around them.

Originally Posted by Globemaster2827

...Your EXCO are comprised of morons. They should've simply agreed to merge the Southern and Atlas contracts in 2016. Just think... Atlas would have a $180 12 year 747 Captain rate (less for everything else) , a 2.5% 401k match on a 10% contribution as Southern had no retirement, a 19 day work month with 14 day "Vacation Lines", a 5 year deal where management can then buy Centurion in 2021, a 61 hour guarantee, a trip rig of 2.425 a day, no business class international travel (nobody else in ACMI had it two years ago) and 26 hour work days. Yup....... If only the moronic Atlas Exco had simply amalgamated 2 years ago...

Originally Posted by dutch747

This is one route they will could take. I'm betting they will try to bypass the union leadership and present our pilot group with an increase in wages, a few minor changes to work rules and status quo on everything else. All while yelling "LET THEM VOTE!!!"


Same thing that was done at Omni and Kalitta.


Whatever the path, Atlas Air is not a employee friendly place to hang your hat.

Originally Posted by 742Dash

The problem with this argument is that we have been down the Section 1 road before, and the result of the Atlas/Polar arbitration was NOT as you just described. Not even close. The resulting pay rates were higher than either contract, business class survived and so forth.

There were three contracts in 2011; Atlas, Polar and the arbitrated result. They are available for anyone who wants to dig for them.

Originally Posted by JonnyKnoxville

You can increase pay rates and still take an overall pay cut. That is exactly what management wants to do now.

Originally Posted by JonnyKnoxville

...and therein lies the rub. You said "the resulting pay rates were higher". Those higher pay rates were as a result of gutting the meaningful profit sharing of the time.

Originally Posted by 742Dash

The profit sharing program did not change with the 2011 contract.

There are a lot of rosy memories of big profit sharing checks, but they were not large during the bankruptcy and recovery. And before that they had been inflated by Shuyler's creative accounting. In addition the ancient profit sharing program is tied only to Atlas Air, and predates AAWH. So all of the earnings under the expanding umbrella of companies are excluded. This has been understood for some time by those paying attention.

Originally Posted by dutch747

This is one route they will could take. I'm betting they will try to bypass the union leadership and present our pilot group with an increase in wages, a few minor changes to work rules and status quo on everything else. All while yelling "LET THEM VOTE!!!"


Same thing that was done at Omni and Kalitta.


Whatever the path, Atlas Air is not a employee friendly place to hang your hat.

Originally Posted by JonnyKnoxville

I am fully aware of the AAWW versus Atlas Air, Inc. profit sharing. However, I guess I wasn't paying attention to the rest of the details in the 2002 CBA on profit sharing. When did the $75 million carve-out from profit sharing start? Okay, I just looked it up to make sure. The Atlas Air 2002 CBA provided profit sharing at a 10% of pretax profits with no carveout whatsoever. The last three years, based on the 2011 CBA calculation (with carveout), we have gotten 1.6%, 1.4%, and 1.3% profit sharing, respectfully. Therefore, we have taken more than an 8% pay cut in profit sharing by the changing of the terms of profit sharing from CBA 2002 to CBA 2011.

So, if it were up to you, I guess we would be heading down the "goodness of their heart" path from management that Globemaster2827 so appropriately laid out.