wjcandee

You're making my point. For all the high-virtue arguments made in court, the actual motivation for the strike was something else entirely. And as I said, if ABX pilots are happy with the result and think it was an effective strategy, then that's all that matters.

wjcandee

Yeah, but as long as the ABX guys continue to call ATI guys the S-word for their response to the strike, where the striking union intentionally issued no definition of "struck work", and ATI carried no ABX freight (and in fact refused to do so when asked), and the strike was obviously-illegal, I think it's fair to ventilate the actual facts occasionally in response to that. Indeed, it has always seemed that the strike was rolled out in a way that was designed to cause, as one result, exactly this.

nitefr8dog

ATI was flying that day. Atlas, Southern, Kalita were not. Sugarcoat it all you want but there it is.To get to work they had to cross a strike line, there is a name for that....just saying.
And let's stop kidding our selves....the whole ATI pilot group except the few ATI pilots who recognized the strike and stood with us would have done triple overtime flying around the clock for months if JV and JH promised them all the flying from every carrier on the ramp while ABX was on strike.

woog315

Get over it dude. We lost. The ATI situation is certainly more complex than you want to admit. Your pride and stubbornness has a dollar value of $0 and a huge negative productivity value. In fact, you're just blaming the failures of the ABX group to secure their own future on everyone else. Maybe get in there and compete, because GUESS WHAT? We're not actually better than any other ACMI pilot group- we're all stuck competing with each other and ABX refuses to compete. The hard headedness and arrogance of the ABX union, and the pilot group that tends to fall in line rather than speak out, has almost completely destroyed the place. You guys seem content sitting in the right seat for 20 years because you're gonna 'raise the bar' or whatever the group here is trying to accomplish. Put me firmly in the "Sick of it" column. Stop ****ting on other pilot groups and get your own house in order.

goinaround

Perfect

.....

Bungalow

Hey Man
How dare you come over here speaking eloquently and making good common sense. Don’t you know that is strictly forbidden in ABX related discussions ?
The nerve.

mpflyboy1

You again slipped the word “illegal” again. The common sense proof that it wasn’t illegal without getting into the legal stuff that nobody understands is this: if it really was illegal don’t you think ABX management would have happily sued the union and won a settlement against the pilot group? The fact they didn’t should say a lot.

I too get tired of this topic and wish we could move on and find a way to work together.

l8fr82hub

Triple overtime flying around the clock for months (or years) like the senior ABX pilots did when the junior pilots got furloughed?

woog315

I am seriously hesitant to bog down in this discussion, but this line of thinking really can't just be left hanging out there to enter all the impressionable minds of pilots (i kid, i kid). A status quo strike, absent a major contractual dispute, is illegal under the RLA. The court looked at our situation, said there was no major dispute, and told us to get back to work. The strike was enjoined, it really can't be more clear. The union did not follow the procedures, which are undoubtedly stacked in the company's favor but that doesn't really matter because the law is the law. This is the clearest explanation I have found that doesn't require you to be a lawyer - https://www.goodwinlaw.com/-/media/f..._line_rule.pdf

Why didn't the company come after us? Well that's real simple, actually. They are trying to secure as much business as they can, and a company that is dragging its labor through the courts does not look like a stable business. So when they sit down and negotiate with Amazon or DHL, and they ask "so hows labor relations?' its pretty hard to say "good!" when you are dragging your pilot group through court. What would taking us to court accomplish?

They are *trying* to make ATSG succeed, and they are succeeding without the help of ABX currently. ABX currently negotiates using a "We win it all, or no one wins anything" mentality, which is the equivalent of a Darwin award for organized labor (a choice quote around here is 'burn it all down!'. Yes, maybe light my house on fire too, that'll show em). We're like the knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail who, after having all his limbs chopped off, keeps hurling insults and making threats. We're basically just being laughed at by now. They'll keep using us to plug holes in their schedules and giving all the real growth to the guys interested in playing ball. Good for those guys.

b707guy

That's funny, because here's what you said in post 126 of the "Life From a Relatively New Hire at ATI" thread: "The pilots were able to stop all items in violation of the contract which caused the strike and in the end were paid hugh settlements. Which was the sole purpose of the strike....that and to show JH we would not stand by while he tried to move aircraft on ABX certificate to ATI ( which he wanted) without repercussions."

So, which is it?

BTW, what's a "hugh" settlement. Hugh Laurie? Hugh Hefner? Were they involved in the payout? They do have a lot of money!

As for your iron-clad scope, maybe you need to take a deeper look at what that's really doing to your Company at this point.

You were told you "...cannot strike with respect to the three minor disputes..." and went back to work when ordered to do so. Kind of flies in the face of "They can and we did...". Sounds more like "We thought we could and got called on it".

You question my reasons for commenting on issues of which "I have no idea"? That's really funny! Pot, meet kettle!