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Old 07-09-2019, 11:46 AM   #391  
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Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
Well, you need to do your TAFB times the Walmart hourly rate. The TAFB is the actual time spent away from family while at work. Flying, sitting or at the hotel, you're still away at work. Take that away at work time and multiply it by the Walmart job of choice.
Want a real comparison. Get a firefighting job and do the same TAFB. They do get paid while sleeping/resting.

How's that pay difference looking now?
Do you really believe your argument makes any sense at all, or are you just being obstinate? The only professions that make more on average than pilots at our level are doctors and lawyers. The most important income driver for pilots at an airline with a reasonable contract (both abx and ati currently have reasonable contracts) is growth. ATI seems to get that, while ABX clearly doesn’t.

If you think you deserve to have a line on your paycheck for when you’re getting drunk at the hotel bar and crying about how poorly management treats you, maybe you should consider a job that doesn’t require travel. It’s part of the territory.
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Old 07-09-2019, 03:21 PM   #392  
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Just wondering how many ATI pilots make it to purple or brown? I know just one and he was a legacy. All ACMI ops are fishing in the same experience pond. Good luck.
Three since the hiring binge started three years ago.

Considering in that time frame, our attrition is eight or nine I believe. That includes the three to Fedup, some failures to progress and others to the pax world. In that number I did not include retired peeps. Over all, I think weíre doing OK.

Iíll see if I can get a more solid number.
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:26 AM   #393  
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What is wrong with people?? I would hope there is not a single pilot who comes into this career thinking they will be home every night! That being said, to compare this job to working at Walmart is just plain silly. It has always amazed me the number of pilots who complain about being away from home or think they should be compensated for their off duty time on the road. Seriously....and who doesn't know what the compensation details are before taking any position with any airline? Human beings are never content with what we have are we?

If you do a real comparison about what matters (time on duty) pilots work a lot less than the typical blue collar worker bee, and for a lot more money!

In many cases, we work about half the hours of many 9 to 5ers and make 2 to 3 times more. For many of us we make 4 to 5 times what someone at Walmart makes and work half the hours.

Come on guys...really?! This thread was supposed to be about hiring at ATI and instead has become a place for people from a competing airline to complain about their career choices. I have worked both sides (pilot side and 9 to 5) and I know how good I have it. Wouldn't trade it for a job at Walmart!!

You know the "Living the Dream" videos on YouTube are so true....job is different, but the people are the same. I am sure people who work for Walmart complain about their employer as well and I am positive they would have a much different perspective of our lot in life no matter how much time we spend away from home. Matter of fact, I am willing to bet there are employees at Walmart that absolutely love their job and I say good for them! They found a role that suits them and love what they do.

Find something you love and you will never work a day kn your life. Life is not about what's fair, because life just isn't fair...only foolish politicians think they can make it fair for all (more than likely they promise to make things fair for votes). It's all about perspective folks. Sorry for the rant.

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Last edited by Av8r75; 07-10-2019 at 03:01 AM.
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Old 07-10-2019, 06:01 AM   #394  
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Actually still not bad. I havenít met a Walmart employee that works 24 hours a day. So total time away from base is pointless. Many trips provide a lot of time off. So even calculating all time away from base, we look closer and find that is the equivalent of getting paid for not working. Again that is a useless comparison. Especially since we donít have bases.

For some though, TAFB/Time away from home is important.

My time away from home is even more time lost since I have to play catch up when I get home. Not including my commute, 17x24=408 hours of work a month. As for sleeping and getting paid...Iím not with my family. Theyíre not coming with me and this is not a vacation. Now I can get out and do stuff on a 24+ hour layover (better with 36 or 48 hrs), but itís rare.

The moment I step foot outside the door of the house to go to work, Iím at work. We should be working 15 instead of 17. While I love flying, I do other things too in my spare time.

When an ABX guy says you work more days that us, you probably are. You guys along with us should be working to reduce the overall days away from home. I think we all should be getting higher DC and medical help if problems should arise. If ABX didnít have flex days and never had to JRM, this place would be way better.



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Old 07-10-2019, 12:00 PM   #395  
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The ATI First Officer application window will open up next week on 7/16/19 and will remain open through 7/23/19.
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Old 07-11-2019, 06:58 AM   #396  
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Going to happen anyway after ATI accepted a contract that only gave pay raises. Less matching funds, lower disability pay, no reassignment/change of designation pay etc. The pay raise looked good and they bought it because they were willing to work for Walmart cart boy pay for years...something ABX crews would not do 20 yrs ago or now. Yet now that is the bar that is put before us. Does anyone understand whipsawing? ATSG now owns 3 airlines. We do not yet have a new contract...to get aircraft from the other carriers we would have to agree to a matching or less contract like ATI did...to get promised aircraft at the cost of the other carriers...like ATI did..
understand? It's not rocket science.
Actually, I don’t think you understand. It is not the ATI pilots responsibility to get you a better contract. At K4 we financially witnessed taking it for the benefit of a corrupt 1224 upper management. How about holding your Union local accountable for your negotiations and stop blaming everyone else for lowering the bar. (If you are an AAWW pilot. If you are ABX your Union is doing a fine job without any help from anyone)

We have seen raising of the bar in some areas with ATI, K4 and Omni. Just because you disagree with their choices does not mean they are wrong. I support my Union but not yours, unless you put up a picket line. Then in that case it is no go for me and my brethren.

BTW I think ABX is doing a fine job at showing that whipsaw doesn’t effect you unless you choose to participate. ABX pilots union holds the line and seems to understand the bigger picture.
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Old 07-11-2019, 01:33 PM   #397  
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How many hours do ATI pilots fly per month and how long are layovers usually?
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Old 07-11-2019, 04:28 PM   #398  
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The ATI First Officer application window will open up next week on 7/16/19 and will remain open through 7/23/19.
Have they posted their minimum requirements yet?
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Old 07-11-2019, 06:10 PM   #399  
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Actually, I donít think you understand. It is not the ATI pilots responsibility to get you a better contract. At K4 we financially witnessed taking it for the benefit of a corrupt 1224 upper management. How about holding your Union local accountable for your negotiations and stop blaming everyone else for lowering the bar. (If you are an AAWW pilot. If you are ABX your Union is doing a fine job without any help from anyone)

We have seen raising of the bar in some areas with ATI, K4 and Omni. Just because you disagree with their choices does not mean they are wrong. I support my Union but not yours, unless you put up a picket line. Then in that case it is no go for me and my brethren.

BTW I think ABX is doing a fine job at showing that whipsaw doesnít effect you unless you choose to participate. ABX pilots union holds the line and seems to understand the bigger picture.
Actually it is....they just like everyone else in ACMI owe it to the industry. If you are making 1 dollar and get a 100% pay raise you are make 2...still s#!t pay. We are being told an increase in our retirement benefits would mean ATI and OMNI would want increases too. So we could settle for less but are not willing to. Get it? If ABX holds out for more ATI and OMNI will have a better negotiating position also. Just like ATI accepted a lower DC, no scheduling protection, lower disability pay. Now when we negotiate with the company they say ..well ATI was willing to take it up the tail pipe in these areas ..why won't you? There is strength in a combined front..we may be different unions but we are fighting the same battle. Did you finish school? It's not that tough!! I feel like I am trying to teaching a 5 yr old how to back up a semi with a tandem trailer.
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Old 07-11-2019, 07:31 PM   #400  
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Actually it is....they just like everyone else in ACMI owe it to the industry. If you are making 1 dollar and get a 100% pay raise you are make 2...still s#!t pay. We are being told an increase in our retirement benefits would mean ATI and OMNI would want increases too. So we could settle for less but are not willing to. Get it? If ABX holds out for more ATI and OMNI will have a better negotiating position also. Just like ATI accepted a lower DC, no scheduling protection, lower disability pay. Now when we negotiate with the company they say ..well ATI was willing to take it up the tail pipe in these areas ..why won't you? There is strength in a combined front..we may be different unions but we are fighting the same battle. Did you finish school? It's not that tough!! I feel like I am trying to teaching a 5 yr old how to back up a semi with a tandem trailer.
And if they voted no? Low pay and having qol issues. How is that not taking it up the tailpipe?
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