Originally Posted by nitefr8dog

I wish I cared if you agreed or sided with me ....but I don't.

Originally Posted by not miserabex

And there lies the problem.

Originally Posted by not miserabex

This whole scope thing is so confusing...

So... take N714AX,
That was an ABX aircraft? A quick internet search shows that aircraft at ATI? I am confused how that happened. Does the scope not forbid that?

Ok... maybe isolated incident.
Wait... didn't CAM trade one of the 'tainted tails' for 255?

It has been explained to me, and it might be completely wrong, that scope letter has been interpreted to only include the specific tails that were at ABX on the day it was written? I think that was being argued and again, I am truly interested in the truth.


Really all ATSG has to do is swap out the tainted tails for ones that have never been at ABX. ATSG has enough that they can easily swap out all the tainted tails with other companies like Amerijet, UPS ...
Would that not make the 767 portion of the scope useless?
Now the DHL part is pretty clear and very smart on your part. Granted, you have to remember your fight is with ATSG, NOT ATI. ATI flies what ATSG gives them. Why be mad at ATI pilots when you should be venting at ATSG.

So, lets say ATI grew a set and held out for scope on all the Amazon flying. Would you applaud them for standing up and helping the cause while shutting ABX out?


Really, I am open minded here. See if you can explain this in a civil way without all the sh!t.

Convince me to side with you. I am open minded... are you?

These are serious questions. Convince me with an intelligent, civil debate.

Originally Posted by nitefr8dog

rereading your post....yes the fight is not ATI per se....its the common fight to not accept a sub standard contract which then ATSG compares to the other carriers they own. We are fighting for increases in all areas not just pay. Now we are being told why would I agree to that...I would have to give the same to ATI and OMNI. You will see on the next round of negotiations. ATI wanted home basing and a raise....we want more money than you and no home basing and our scheduling rules, higher DC match, disability, scope etc. Your contract makes that tough. Hete can move your aircraft tomorrow to OMNI or ABX...what's that worth? Plus you will never get that protection. We will get a contract...we just won't accept yours. But now that you have yours ours will be much harder to get. Should have worked together..
As far as going away....we have 25 aircraft pay 200k a month to CAM and 200+ pilots. That's 5-6M a month
60M a yr. Alot of revenue to walk away from because you are having a tantrum over a strike. Won't happen. If it does we have something again nobody else has....preferential hiring at both OMNI and ATI...and he is sorry he ever agreed to it. I was flying with a 3rd FO that said 3rd pay starting at either carrier would be fine. There you have it.

Originally Posted by No Land 3

People bash Mesa all the time, but one thing they did get was a scope clause that forbid multiple sister companies, after Freedom Air. Sounds like you guys could of used that. The reality is you will never get different pilot groups wanting the same exact things, and holding back one group to prop up the other leads to the opposite of what you want.
I don't fault ATI for wanting home basing, it is a life changer.
However, this regional level political hurt feelings bullcrap needs to stop. It is unrealistic, immature, and stupid to even think anyone has a say in another pilot groups negotiations. We all want and need each pilot group to hit a grand slam with every new contract, but at the same time, locking in significant gains and avoiding extra years of negotiations for the last 10% is also a win.

Originally Posted by not miserabex

Maybe I am missing something...

• Customer revenues were $334.6 million, up $131.0 million, or 64 percent.
Each of ATSG's principal business segments, aircraft leasing and air transport, reported higher revenues for the second quarter. Revenues from Omni Air International, which ATSG acquired in November 2018, were the largest contributor to the year-over-year revenue gain.


In December 2018, ATSG agreed to lease ten more Boeing 767-300 converted freighters to Amazon

I read that as ALL segments showed gains, including the Amazon sector (ten more planes). Also, of course Omni show the greatest increase as they only were acquired in November of 2018. They did not contribute anything to second quarter of 2018 as they had not yet become part of ATSG.
Made up numbers just to explain...
If each arm made 100 million last year and 110 million this year, the INCREASE is 20 Million. Omni was not part of ATSG last year so zero is the benchmark for Omni to ATSG for second quarter of 2018. They contributed 120 million this year so they are the largest contributor to the the INCREASE. The important statistic is NOT this year but NEXT year.
Yes, they are a money maker, much like the ATI combi's are money makers, Omni is that times 100... maybe that is why ATSG bought Omni?

Which brings up a good point... ABX is the ONLY carrier NOT allowed to carry pax. Atlas, Kalitta, ATI, Omni and even Southern can carry pax. Always nice to have a fall back if Amazon starts moving aircraft to other carriers... well, except ABX.

Yes, Amazon is a food fight. But ya' gotta' eat.
Can't we all just get along? (Rodney King)

Originally Posted by corpjet

Where do you apply for ATI, I checked the webpage and doesn´t show openings for first officers? Thanks

Originally Posted by corpjet

Where do you apply for ATI, I checked the webpage and doesn´t show openings for first officers? Thanks