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Old 01-08-2019, 09:48 AM   #71  
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Default Thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyAstarJets View Post
ATI's Online Hiring Window, like other airlines (oh say like Omni's which you inquired about in another thread), open and close periodically. When HR decides it needs to freshen up the pool, they will announce it and someone will post it here.

Thanks. I'll keep an eye out.
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Old 01-09-2019, 06:06 AM   #72  
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Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
Don’t disagree. Just said they’ve become a viable career path instead of a stepping stone. That doesn’t mean there aren’t better jobs out there. There are also those who’ll never be able to move into base; Everybody’s situations are different. For many, the QOL of never needing a crashpad and never having to jumpseat to/from work, and having huge blocks of days off all together outweigh the other choices. The new 767 pay scales at K4 & Omni are $20 an hour above UAL on the same equipment at 12 year longevity. (Using APC data) Throw some of that extra cash in the 401(k) and you’re about even, right? Point being there are trade offs with any job. Pick what works for you.

I do agree about ACMI being somewhat less stable contract wise. However, recessions hit mainlines also, so do bankruptcy contracts. Ask the thousands of guys AA furloughed, some of whom were lucky enough (cursed enough) to flow back to Captain jobs at Eagle for over a decade.

Even with the deceased contract stability, the real industry driver for the next 14 years will be pilot staffing. It’s nit going to be lowest bidder... it’s going to be who can actually fly the contracted flights. That takes pilots. Pilots are the new currency, not service contracts. The companies with the pilots to do the flying will get the contracts. We aren’t there yet, but 2019 is when the retirements really start to kick into high gear.
Legacies do better off in the long run than any ACMI ever will, AA was the exception rather than the rule. I still don't buy the shortage, there are a lot of retirements sure, but there will be pull back in a few years and there are a lot more things the majors can do to mitigate hiring, like scope relief and more codeshare. When things slow down again (and they will, trust me) starting FO pay will be back to $45k again at all the ACMIs.

To your point about United, the Omni pay scales might go higher but consider this... The pay isn't as much about hourly it's about the work rules. United pilots and the other Legacies have all sorts of pay protections along with trip rigs, duty rigs, the ability to add and drop trips without loss in pay, and vacation accrual rates that add so much more to the equation.

The 401k doesn't really matter as much at those places because they also pay a B fund. This means the company deposits money into a fund on your behalf, my understanding is about 12-15% of your pay per month/year, but nothing it taken out of your check. Free money basically. That's how these guys are getting their water cannon salute after 25+ years and walking away with an extra 1-2 million dollar check. To add sugar to it, they also have a normal 401k plan as well with the matching you are talking about. AFAIK all the ACMIs are offering 401k's only. To add even more sugar, FDX and UPS pay both of the above plus a pension. That's how the difference between ACMI/charter vs. UPS/FDX/Legacies equates in the millions even if the payscales aren't that far apart.

I'm well aware that its not easy to get hired at a Legacy either. Just saying the choice to jump is a no brainer if you do get the chance.

Safe travels.
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Old 01-09-2019, 06:34 AM   #73  
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Hete will never pay another pension to an ATSG carrier. Plus, ATI never thought a pension was worth risking their home basing. As a side note, I will never touch my 401....I have a defined benefit plan. My kids thank you Joe!
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Old 01-11-2019, 03:47 PM   #74  
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Originally Posted by Asiabound View Post
Legacies do better off in the long run than any ACMI ever will, AA was the exception rather than the rule. I still don't buy the shortage, there are a lot of retirements sure, but there will be pull back in a few years and there are a lot more things the majors can do to mitigate hiring, like scope relief and more codeshare. When things slow down again (and they will, trust me) starting FO pay will be back to $45k again at all the ACMIs.

To your point about United, the Omni pay scales might go higher but consider this... The pay isn't as much about hourly it's about the work rules. United pilots and the other Legacies have all sorts of pay protections along with trip rigs, duty rigs, the ability to add and drop trips without loss in pay, and vacation accrual rates that add so much more to the equation.

The 401k doesn't really matter as much at those places because they also pay a B fund. This means the company deposits money into a fund on your behalf, my understanding is about 12-15% of your pay per month/year, but nothing it taken out of your check. Free money basically. That's how these guys are getting their water cannon salute after 25+ years and walking away with an extra 1-2 million dollar check. To add sugar to it, they also have a normal 401k plan as well with the matching you are talking about. AFAIK all the ACMIs are offering 401k's only. To add even more sugar, FDX and UPS pay both of the above plus a pension. That's how the difference between ACMI/charter vs. UPS/FDX/Legacies equates in the millions even if the payscales aren't that far apart.

I'm well aware that its not easy to get hired at a Legacy either. Just saying the choice to jump is a no brainer if you do get the chance.

Safe travels.
My point is everybody’s situation is different. Many don’t have the years left to jump ship and start over at a legacy. With the increased pay and rule improvements Places like K4 and Omni are viable alternatives. K4 has dozens of CA’s over $400k this past year, several over $500k, and at least one that almost hit $600k. Even junior CA’s are doing $225k and up. With half the month off every month, never jumpseating, never crashpading..... it’s not the no brainer it used to be for many guys. If you’re an FO, or young, sure....
Each guy needs to research and decide for themselves based upon their own situation.
Safe travels to you too.
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Old 01-12-2019, 03:50 PM   #75  
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Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
My point is everybody’s situation is different. Many don’t have the years left to jump ship and start over at a legacy. With the increased pay and rule improvements Places like K4 and Omni are viable alternatives. K4 has dozens of CA’s over $400k this past year, several over $500k, and at least one that almost hit $600k. Even junior CA’s are doing $225k and up. With half the month off every month, never jumpseating, never crashpading..... it’s not the no brainer it used to be for many guys. If you’re an FO, or young, sure....
Each guy needs to research and decide for themselves based upon their own situation.
Safe travels to you too.
Our MEC/union guys at ATI claim those numbers are impossible on the K4 contract
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Old 01-12-2019, 03:59 PM   #76  
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Our MEC/union guys at ATI claim those numbers are impossible on the K4 contract
No, it's not. You guys just settled for less.
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Old 01-12-2019, 06:36 PM   #77  
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Our MEC/union guys at ATI claim those numbers are impossible on the K4 contract
I doubt your union read anyone else's contract when they settled for work rules and retirement less than abx and less pay than K4. They could have pulled the TA but they didn't. Maybe you will elect sone reps who have the knowledge of where the industry really is.
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:47 PM   #78  
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Sounds like he’s listening to Scabby 1&2.
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Old 01-12-2019, 10:41 PM   #79  
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Our MEC/union guys at ATI claim those numbers are impossible on the K4 contract
I'll bet they do!
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Old 01-13-2019, 07:01 AM   #80  
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I've never heard any of our Union guys claiming that 400K, 500k, or even 600k is impossible at K4.


But let's have a quick math check.

Top rate at DOS+1 (I know, they're on DOS+2 now, but can't use those numbers until this time next year to make any claims) is $262.16, right? To have made $600k, that 12+ year 747 line captain would have to average 190 credit hours each month for 12 months. Pretty remarkable number there! But, impossible, even for only one? Who am I to say?

To have made $400k, that comes to 127 hours each month for 12 months. Also a pretty remarkable number, but certainly attainable in the 747.

But I am confident that it would be pert-near impossible for a K4 767 line pilot to have made $400k last year. Or this year, for that matter. Not while having a life as most of us would want it, anyway.

And, last I checked, ATI has less than 1 747.

Y'all just keep beating your chests. It's entertaining. And you have no idea what's going on over here.

Last edited by b707guy; 01-13-2019 at 07:13 AM.
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