ATI hiring through 2019
 

During Recent line check the CA claimed were hiring 1-2 classes a month through 2019.

Just FYI to newbs looking to bypass the regionals and fly 767’s

Two classes a month seems high. That said, a potentially good sign for some movement for folks already on property, shorter upgrade times (maybe 2-4 years?).

Someone getting an upgrade at 3 years at ATI is going to be making some pretty competitive money compared to 3 years elsewhere sitting FO.

True. ATI has to hire like crazy to crew these American Airlines planes that are on the way.

ATI pay is a lot more than Atlas / Southern too. But then again so is basically everybody’s.

This can be a unique learning experience for newbies! You can learn first hand what it’s like to work with scab management pilots and gutless picket line crossers. After you leave for other ventures, you can spread the legacy.

Did you really just admit that ATI’s captain pay is “competitive” with being a first officer elsewhere?

I think he was attempting to make a dig at ABX pilots, but yeah... Now you see what we're up against

For %#cks sake lets hope so! Isn't that what a new contract is supposed to do? Even a lowball one.

You don't think they are telling everyone that? Let the whipsaw begin...

A bit over the top don’t you think? BTW nobody cares who you worked for at that interview that you are moving onto. If ATI continues to grow and they are able to flourish, (signs are pointing in that direction) why would you want to leave?

Why is that a dig to just ABX. Is it not true with most carriers? If you come to K4 today, you will more than likely not upgrade in 24 months.

Why would you think Amazon would want to give these planes to ABX? It was demonstrated that ABX pilots have no problem with disrupting service and causing the most harm to our customer.

Touch a nerve did I...
Just repeating what I have heard...
Also they pattern themselves after DHL which moves aircraft from one airline to the other monthly...
Convince yourself ATI is the chosen ones...the next lowball contract you will see aircraft moved like chess pieces....OMNI will get the next ones

My point was that in addition to pay, progression is valuable, and so despite how "crappy" the ATI contract is, if you are starting out, it's not a terrible spot to be in after three years. You also pick up more PIC time if you can get an early upgrade - if UPS or Fedex is a goal (it should be) that's another benefit.

Some rough #'s at 3 years assuming folks make it to CA with ATI (an if).

ATI (CA) - $190/hr

Omni - $140/hr
Kalitta (CA) - $211/hr (another place with good upgrades - nice!)
UPS - $180/hr
Fedex - $180/hr

ABX - $110/hr
Southern - $90/hr !

You should have your numbers straight Omni 3 year CA is 203. In April it goes to 211, and it goes up every april for the next 2 years after that I have no idea where you came up with 140 an hour!

And my point is that it’s stupid to make plans based on when you hope that you’ll be upgrading. The music could absolutely stop for all of us tomorrow. The only thing that, as a new hire, you should expect to make in 3 years is 3 year FO pay.

Not sure if you’re looking at CA or FO rates or a mix of both, but some numbers are incorrect.

Thanks, was gonna say that too...isn’t Omni upgrading at 2 years just like K4?


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How many are going to be in these classes? You know we are wanting to do 1 class a month with 40 guys in each class. Think about it.


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If hired today a 3rd year 767 FedEx FO would be paid $191 an hour and a 3rd year 757 Captain (upgrades at 2 currently) would be $261 an hour. That’s the final year of the current contract as well, so hopefully those numbers go way up.

We are at around 2.5 years upgrade at the moment. It may go lower we have two 767 coming on line in the next year and half these plane are planes orderd pre ATSG purchase. And we will just wait and see what else may happen.

Omni is now part of the newly minted Hete/DHL/Amazon triangle of oblivion. Anything can happen, nobody knows. From my experience, whatever happens will be a complete surprise, and not make any sense to pilots. If you are young and considering any ATSG carrier as a career destination you are probably making a big mistake.

As a guy looking at the regionals or Cargo to start off with, what would be biggest considerations you'd be looking at?

I'm at 1820 hrs TT, with the rest of my times at ATP minimums

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Regionals with a flow through to a mainline pax carrier....stay away from ACMI. Cargo at Fedex or UPS when you have the qualifications is a whole different world than ACMI....you have a real future with unequaled benifits
pay and retirement.

I don't see the FO position on their jobs page. Is there a secret link somewhere? Maybe the hiring window isn't open yet?

They are doing you a favor.

Good point! I've got Omni, Kalitta and ATI all as places that have been pretty good to be at for last 3 years along.

Another good point, who knows what happens tomorrow, the music could stop for sure. This is a mix of CA wages (for places with shorter upgrade times) and FO wages (for longer) just to see what someone hired three years ago might be looking at in terms of comp.

This really is changing....

K4, Omni, ATI, then Western Global.
Atlas/Southern will be good once they get a new CBA. It’s toxic there now, but that will change very fast once they get an agreement. With the massive legacy hiring about to really jack up, I don’t think it will be the two years folks are estimating. I’d bet on a TA by the end of next fall.

Assuming you will be in the left seat in 3 years time at any ACMI carrier is an enormous assumption. There are 20+ year FOs at ABX that were given that same BS, although ABX was not an ACMI carrier at that time. They were an integrated carrier soon to be dropped into the ACMI toilet by the DHL debacle. If Amazon puts a disproportionate share of their eggs in that ATI basket it would it would be a 180 degree turn from their contractor business model. If you choose to go to ATI you might want to have a viable exit strategy.

Just occurred to me that it was probably ATI’s current VP of ops that was selling that quick upgrade nonsense 20 years ago in interviews. That’s right about the time he moved from super junior FO to management at ABX.

Hiring flight instructors into 767 right seat?

It's been done before. It will be done again.

Not really...

Look at all these managers or management suck ups advertising the lowest paying jobs in the industry. They should be saying hey don't make it easy on the company until brought up to the rest of the industry.

10% behind in pay from omni and k4
10% behind in DC retirement from the industry

Yet blow hards saying come here work for 20% less than everyone else in the industry. Do you realize how much of your career will be wasted when you add up losing 20% of over 100k + for 4-5 years? Not to mention seniority at a real airline?

Ati, abx, omni, atlas are not going to be the next UPS. They have already shown it's going to take almost a decade to develop any kind of farmed out flying.

Do yourself and fellow pilots a favor and go somewhere with pay rates, retirement and rules in place, Spirit, Jet blue, and even Frontier all will upgrade you in the same time frame and you can have some dignity know your carrier is competitive with pilot pay.

Or you can continue selling your sole to try and get airplanes at ATI.

Here comes the tribe to say how wrong I am and telling me to leave instead of taking a stand and fighting for what others already have for doing the same work!

Amazon doesn’t contract directly with any of the carriers inside the ATSG Holding company. The contract is between Amazon and ATSG. Then the decision to assign airplanes is done internally within ATSG. No pilot group works directly for Amazon.

Who said go to ABX...it is a dumpster fire run by incompetent management. I think we all agree on that without making up bu!!$hit.

Kalitta, Omni and a few others have certainly become viable careers in their own right.

It’s interesting that you complain about lagging 10%-20% behind the industry while listing Frontier as competitive pilot pay. Go on their threads, they’re complaining about the last TA being, yep you guesssed it 10%-20% less than Spirit and much less than Jetblue.

Look, there are lots of folks who don’t think a schedule of 4 on 3 off, fighting for a jumpseat to and from a crashpad is an improvement from positive space and guaranteed hotels. You have Kalitta senior CA’s making over $300k and several over $500k. Senior Omni CA’s are doing over $300k as well.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both career paths. If you don’t like where you’re at, leave. I’ll add one thing... ask some of your coworkers who came from regionals where they truly got crap pay and were abused daily how they like working at your company.... see, it’s all relative, and the grass is always greener. For me, I made more as a first year FO at Omni than I ever made as a regional CA. No crashpads, no commuting headaches, lots of time off in big enough chunks to actually take the family on vacations several times a year. Best kept secret in aviation in my opinion.

The other carriers will catch up in CBA aspects as the pilot shortage worsens and they can’t staff. They’ll either pay appropriately or close from all the cancelled flights.

Moderator input
 

As a new member of APC, you may be unaware that while you are free to criticize wages, working conditions, QOL, etc, you may not call other people names just because they disagree with you. Thanks.

No one is saying ABX is the next UPS. Get a grip.

You do a good job illustrating what the trash talkers sound like on this board.

Insults (usually obviously bogus).
Spelling errors (soul not sole).
Idiocy (usually).

For folks looking to get to UPS / Fedex etc, a place like ATI or Omni or K4 is not a terrible step, especially if they are lucky and get an upgrade in a timely way. They get paid CA rates, build CA time, get type etc. Not everyone can go straight to UPS.

Pilots have different opinions, that doesn't make them management. ABX guys absolutely ripped the ATI guys for valuing home basing during last contract negotiations, but the ATI guys like home basing so kept it in. Or compare the number of legs and short turns a southwest pilot sometimes flies on the west coast - southwest has 9,000 pilots but might not be for everyone.

If you want to go to a plank union airline - check out ABX - they will and do throw crap / **** in their beds / **** on the customer / file harassment complaints / talk like management is the second coming of hitler.