Amazon Expanding Shipping Capability
06-09-2019, 06:23 AM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Retired
Posts: 651
Originally Posted by sixpack
...If they start their own airline they will buy a certificate and hire their own pilots from the top tier of the industry, not a bunch of guys with DUIs on their records or teamsters that will cause more trouble than it is worth.
And here is a free history lesson. UPS used to be a crap job. FDX used to be a crap job. Airborne used to be a great job. As recently at 2012 pilots were beating down the door trying to get hired at Atlas. This industry is white water with lots of rocks.
And no Atlas pilot ever had to pay for his airplane's gas with his personal credit card.
Last edited by 742Dash; 06-09-2019 at 06:31 AM. Reason: expanded
06-09-2019, 06:25 AM
#62
On Reserve Forever
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Position: Would you like fries with that gear, sir?
Posts: 270
Originally Posted by sixpack
Bezos is not going to buy ATSG or ATLAS. He made it very clear when looking where to put the new HQs that the decision came down to being able to hire the best talent in the country. ACMI pilots are the bottom of the barrel in the pilot industry. 95% of them are not hirable at the majors for all sorts of reasons. Amazon will continue to contract out flying as along as they can. If they start their own airline they will buy a certificate and hire their own pilots from the top tier of the industry, not a bunch of guys with DUIs on their records or teamsters that will cause more trouble than it is worth.
Tell us how you really feel. I know a ton of guys that have escaped and all model citizens. This model citizen includes me.
Your ignorance shows with the fact that you must think its soooooo easy to get hired a major. Please share you infinite wisdom to getting hired.
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06-09-2019, 06:34 AM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Left
Posts: 325
Originally Posted by sixpack
Bezos is not going to buy ATSG or ATLAS. He made it very clear when looking where to put the new HQs that the decision came down to being able to hire the best talent in the country. ACMI pilots are the bottom of the barrel in the pilot industry. 95% of them are not hirable at the majors for all sorts of reasons. Amazon will continue to contract out flying as along as they can. If they start their own airline they will buy a certificate and hire their own pilots from the top tier of the industry, not a bunch of guys with DUIs on their records or teamsters that will cause more trouble than it is worth.
06-09-2019, 07:40 AM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 611
I remember walking through the terminal as a little kid and seeing Southwest Airlines taxi by for the first time. I asked a legacy pilot about the airline with the funny paint job that I had never seen before. His somewhat angry response, "Some low cost bottom-feeder." "The pilots there can't get hired anywhere else." I asked why. He said, "most have criminal backgrounds, didn't go to college or they have DUIs." "Can you believe they don't even get a retirement over there?"
Although I was a little too young to really understand much of what he was saying, I got the gist of it. As I got a little older, I heard essentially the same thing about the pilots at FedEx and UPS from other pilots I spoke with.
Oh, how things change. That conversation has always stuck with me. Post September 2011, as the legacy carriers took massive hits to their CBAs, all I could think about were the "misfits" that were at the top of the industry.
Although I was a little too young to really understand much of what he was saying, I got the gist of it. As I got a little older, I heard essentially the same thing about the pilots at FedEx and UPS from other pilots I spoke with.
Oh, how things change. That conversation has always stuck with me. Post September 2011, as the legacy carriers took massive hits to their CBAs, all I could think about were the "misfits" that were at the top of the industry.
06-09-2019, 08:05 AM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2007
Position: Sr. VP of button pushing
Posts: 2,729
And the days of “buying a certificate” to start their own airline are long gone.
B. Transfer. A certificate issued under § 119.39 is not transferable and, unless sooner surrendered, suspended, or revoked, shall remain in effect indefinitely in accordance with § 119.61. However, when a person (as defined by 14 CFR part 1, § 1.1, which includes an individual and many types of organizations) holds a certificate, the person who owns or controls the organization may sell or transfer the organization to another person. Incident to such sale or transfer of the organization, the certificate becomes the property of the new owner.
B. Transfer. A certificate issued under § 119.39 is not transferable and, unless sooner surrendered, suspended, or revoked, shall remain in effect indefinitely in accordance with § 119.61. However, when a person (as defined by 14 CFR part 1, § 1.1, which includes an individual and many types of organizations) holds a certificate, the person who owns or controls the organization may sell or transfer the organization to another person. Incident to such sale or transfer of the organization, the certificate becomes the property of the new owner.
06-09-2019, 10:59 AM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 221
Originally Posted by Twin Wasp
And the days of “buying a certificate” to start their own airline are long gone.
B. Transfer. A certificate issued under § 119.39 is not transferable and, unless sooner surrendered, suspended, or revoked, shall remain in effect indefinitely in accordance with § 119.61. However, when a person (as defined by 14 CFR part 1, § 1.1, which includes an individual and many types of organizations) holds a certificate, the person who owns or controls the organization may sell or transfer the organization to another person. Incident to such sale or transfer of the organization, the certificate becomes the property of the new owner.
B. Transfer. A certificate issued under § 119.39 is not transferable and, unless sooner surrendered, suspended, or revoked, shall remain in effect indefinitely in accordance with § 119.61. However, when a person (as defined by 14 CFR part 1, § 1.1, which includes an individual and many types of organizations) holds a certificate, the person who owns or controls the organization may sell or transfer the organization to another person. Incident to such sale or transfer of the organization, the certificate becomes the property of the new owner.
06-09-2019, 01:30 PM
#69
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2017
Posts: 272
Originally Posted by JonnyKnoxville
I remember walking through the terminal as a little kid and seeing Southwest Airlines taxi by for the first time. I asked a legacy pilot about the airline with the funny paint job that I had never seen before. His somewhat angry response, "Some low cost bottom-feeder." "The pilots there can't get hired anywhere else." I asked why. He said, "most have criminal backgrounds, didn't go to college or they have DUIs." "Can you believe they don't even get a retirement over there?"
Although I was a little too young to really understand much of what he was saying, I got the gist of it. As I got a little older, I heard essentially the same thing about the pilots at FedEx and UPS from other pilots I spoke with.
Oh, how things change. That conversation has always stuck with me. Post September 2011, as the legacy carriers took massive hits to their CBAs, all I could think about were the "misfits" that were at the top of the industry.
Although I was a little too young to really understand much of what he was saying, I got the gist of it. As I got a little older, I heard essentially the same thing about the pilots at FedEx and UPS from other pilots I spoke with.
Oh, how things change. That conversation has always stuck with me. Post September 2011, as the legacy carriers took massive hits to their CBAs, all I could think about were the "misfits" that were at the top of the industry.
Thread creep. Funny how the SWA guy made out a **** load better than his legacy butt. Kind of funny.
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06-10-2019, 01:38 PM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 276
Originally Posted by 742Dash
UPS used to be a crap job. FDX used to be a crap job. Airborne used to be a great job. As recently at 2012 pilots were beating down the door trying to get hired at Atlas. This industry is white water with lots of rocks.
UPS was indeed, a "crap job." Mainly because it's flt ops were conducted much as Amazon's are today...as an operating unit that exits largely on paper. One cannot say they treated their employees badly because they really didn't have any employees. Their contractors may have, but they didn't. "Meh. Let 'em take up their problems with their respective companies. Not OUR problem."
FedEx in the early days under Fred Smith was not unlike DHL when Larry Hillblom still had a hand in running it. And FedEx's flt ops after Fred Smith dies are almost certain to become a lot more like DHL's are now. But that's a subject for another thread...
Amazon, as long as Jeff Bezos is alive and on the property, is not going to change it's business model. It's effectively firewalled itself from civic responsibility, labor discord, and from most labor laws in general. Amazon is not going to become the salvation of pilots who missed the brass ring of a job at a legacy carrier, or of those who actually prefer the relative serenity of flying at off-peak hours away from passengers and the hustle and bustle of airline terminals. Nor will Amazon bring salvation for warehouse workers, truck drivers, delivery drivers, or those who manage them. It's simply not in their corporate DNA to be that kind of company. And many American voters lack the will, the savvy, and/or the political influence to require it, and others like it, to be "that kind of company."
To carry forward your water analogy, "Pilots in the ACMI world are focused on the waves, when they should really be reading the swells"
Thanks for the reminder. And the warning...
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