Amazon and it's union busting
02-01-2019, 10:09 AM
#11
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Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 52
Amazon appears to be following the DHL play book to the T. So, personally I do not see much changing in the flight departments of the respective airlines. Until the pilot groups (labor) stand up and demand competitive wages (like ABX) Amazon and DHL are laughing all the way to the bank.
02-01-2019, 11:06 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2011
Posts: 224
Originally Posted by Airplaneflyer11
There is not a doubt in my mind that AAWH and ATSG have stalled contract negotiations in a clear and deliberate effort to either show Amazon or are getting orders from Amazon to not sign a deal.
ATI signed a contract with ATSG which included significant pay increases (pilot interest) and seems to be resulting in productivity, cost predictability and ability to recruit new pilots (ATSG interest). And amazon seems totally fine with this contract being in place. They are adding more flying with ATI than with ABX (no contract - no predictability).
ATSG has def done a deal with the devil (amazon), but this whole idea that Amazon is forcing ATSG to avoid contracts seems ridiculous to me. These companies exist to make money, and pilots with contracts helps them do that. That said, I'm sure when / if robots come along that can fly and land a cargo plane with just 1 pilot - amazon will be first in line for that as well.
02-01-2019, 11:10 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 611
Amazon has stock warrants on 30% of AAWW (if certain provisions are met).
Amazon has stock warrants on 39.9% of ATSG (if certain provisions are met).
This means Amazon could own a combined stock of approximately 35% of a combined AAWW and ATSG as opposed to 69.9% as some have suggested.
Amazon has stock warrants on 39.9% of ATSG (if certain provisions are met).
This means Amazon could own a combined stock of approximately 35% of a combined AAWW and ATSG as opposed to 69.9% as some have suggested.
02-01-2019, 11:57 AM
#14
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Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,809
Originally Posted by JonnyKnoxville
Amazon has stock warrants on 30% of AAWW (if certain provisions are met).
Amazon has stock warrants on 39.9% of ATSG (if certain provisions are met).
This means Amazon could own a combined stock of approximately 35% of a combined AAWW and ATSG as opposed to 69.9% as some have suggested.
Amazon has stock warrants on 39.9% of ATSG (if certain provisions are met).
This means Amazon could own a combined stock of approximately 35% of a combined AAWW and ATSG as opposed to 69.9% as some have suggested.
30% Atlas...possible.
My point was the OP said start an airline or buy one...one could make a case they are slowly doing so....if the pattern it after DHL..it will certainly be a mess.
02-01-2019, 01:00 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 611
Originally Posted by nitefr8dog
I think I was in the ballpark 40 (39.9) ATSG....possible.
30% Atlas...possible.
My point was the OP said start an airline or buy one...one could make a case they are slowly doing so....if the pattern it after DHL..it will certainly be a mess.
30% Atlas...possible.
My point was the OP said start an airline or buy one...one could make a case they are slowly doing so....if the pattern it after DHL..it will certainly be a mess.
02-02-2019, 07:33 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Position: B767 Capt.
Posts: 171
Originally Posted by dynap09
Uh? ATSG is helped by predictable costs / ability to staff and fly productively for customers - they get this with a contract. You can't sign up new business if you have no clue what your future pilot costs / work rules will be.
ATI signed a contract with ATSG which included significant pay increases (pilot interest) and seems to be resulting in productivity, cost predictability and ability to recruit new pilots (ATSG interest). And amazon seems totally fine with this contract being in place. They are adding more flying with ATI than with ABX (no contract - no predictability).
ATSG has def done a deal with the devil (amazon), but this whole idea that Amazon is forcing ATSG to avoid contracts seems ridiculous to me. These companies exist to make money, and pilots with contracts helps them do that. That said, I'm sure when / if robots come along that can fly and land a cargo plane with just 1 pilot - amazon will be first in line for that as well.
ATI signed a contract with ATSG which included significant pay increases (pilot interest) and seems to be resulting in productivity, cost predictability and ability to recruit new pilots (ATSG interest). And amazon seems totally fine with this contract being in place. They are adding more flying with ATI than with ABX (no contract - no predictability).
ATSG has def done a deal with the devil (amazon), but this whole idea that Amazon is forcing ATSG to avoid contracts seems ridiculous to me. These companies exist to make money, and pilots with contracts helps them do that. That said, I'm sure when / if robots come along that can fly and land a cargo plane with just 1 pilot - amazon will be first in line for that as well.
02-02-2019, 10:44 AM
#19
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Slightly tilted right and mostly asleep.
Posts: 93
Originally Posted by dynap09
Uh? ATSG is helped by predictable costs / ability to staff and fly productively for customers - they get this with a contract. You can't sign up new business if you have no clue what your future pilot costs / work rules will be.
ATI signed a contract with ATSG which included significant pay increases (pilot interest) and seems to be resulting in productivity, cost predictability and ability to recruit new pilots (ATSG interest). And amazon seems totally fine with this contract being in place. They are adding more flying with ATI than with ABX (no contract - no predictability).
ATSG has def done a deal with the devil (amazon), but this whole idea that Amazon is forcing ATSG to avoid contracts seems ridiculous to me. These companies exist to make money, and pilots with contracts helps them do that. That said, I'm sure when / if robots come along that can fly and land a cargo plane with just 1 pilot - amazon will be first in line for that as well.
ATI signed a contract with ATSG which included significant pay increases (pilot interest) and seems to be resulting in productivity, cost predictability and ability to recruit new pilots (ATSG interest). And amazon seems totally fine with this contract being in place. They are adding more flying with ATI than with ABX (no contract - no predictability).
ATSG has def done a deal with the devil (amazon), but this whole idea that Amazon is forcing ATSG to avoid contracts seems ridiculous to me. These companies exist to make money, and pilots with contracts helps them do that. That said, I'm sure when / if robots come along that can fly and land a cargo plane with just 1 pilot - amazon will be first in line for that as well.
