Originally Posted by dwight3

You tell me: Why is the union helping to spread obviously bogus info - originating from management - about great things coming? If great things were actually coming we would've been in Section 6 negotiations months ago.

You don't have to get all personal. I sincerely have no clue why the union is doing this and would love to hear a good answer.

Originally Posted by 121guy

I think his point is many people are repeating the “more planes coming” as if it is fact. In reality there hasn’t been any announcement of new business other than the NCA deal. Helping to spread rumors of “big growth right around the corner” and ginning up excitement about expansion and upgrades is indeed carrying the companies water whether you realize it or not. Even if it’s just to say “poo poo they’ll never staff all that new flying”, a better response might be “what new flying?”.

Originally Posted by DC8DRIVER

Reassignment refers to the fact that the flying line that you bid for and are awarded is not the sequence of trips that you will fly. The general footprint may remain the same, but depending on fleet and base, you will be flying somewhere between 0 and 90% of the trips that were on your original bid line. The 747 DHL trips seem to hold up for the first couple of legs and then fall apart once you're out there. Schedules at other bases fall apart more quickly.

"Reserve" at Atlas is completely unlike reserve at a "normal" airline. Atlas reserve pilots (at least on the 74) do not sit reserve. They fly. They are used more than 90% of the time. IF you get the 76 in CVG, you might sit more than that but some of it will be while you enjoy quality hub time at the airport (76 guys can fill in more here).

The problem has been around for a long, long time. You see, back in the first days at Atlas, they were badly understaffed. Then, one day, a pilot called in sick while on the road. Well, they pulled a pilot from another trip to cover that flight, but then needed to cover HIM as well, so they pulled a THIRD pilot from yet a third flight to cover the guy that was covering the first guy.

And they NEVER got caught up. It's been that way ever since and there's no sign of it ever stopping.

Atlas is chronically short of pilots because few pilots want to work under these conditions and most of the ones that are here want to leave (and ARE leaving - about 200 a year hit the door).

Originally Posted by DC8DRIVER

Not sure what you consider " obviously bogus info - originating from management - about great things coming" ...


If the pentagon says " the enemy recruited more troops and built more bombers" That's not helping the enemy. That's simply reporting what is going on (or at least what the enemy SAYS is going on).

When Atlas makes an announcement and the union repeats it to the pilot group, (again, I'm not sure exactly to what you are referring) It is generally to point out that the claims will be difficult to support or are untrue. If the company announces a new hire class of 18 or 24, the union will make a welcoming announcement for the 3 or 4 or 12 that actually showed up for class (and haven't yet resigned).
If the company announces more planes, the union will point out that they will be unable to staff those planes.

Without a specific reference to what you are troubled by, it's impossible to examine your claim.

If somehow you think that our union is enabling the company in some way by repeating the lies and falsehoods published by Atlas management, you're not paying attention to the whole message.

As to why we're not in Section 6 negotiations, read up on the past 3 years events regarding the lawsuits and the actions of our negotiating committee. Not going to hold your hand and walk you through the history one line at a time. If you've actually made it to the front seat of an Atlas jet, you have the resources to find out all by yourself.

Originally Posted by dwight3

I do not agree that the union should be reporting to the pilots the BS claims by management of massive fleet expansion even if the union adds in the caveat that we can't staff those planes. When pilots hear of a massive fleet expansion followed by "not enough crew" they think, "well hot damn there must be a new contract just around the corner!".

Follow that up with the union saying they're optimistic about our position in negotiations because of said expansion and the end result is a bunch of optimistic pilots sticking around just a bit longer and a bunch of optimistic new hires all thinking that a new contract is just around the corner. The union is literally working in concert with the company to spread this message among the pilot group.

Whether this is being done intentionally or unintentionally by the union is irrelevant to the point that they are furthering the goals of management by doing this.

Originally Posted by JackStraw

Don’t forget the “Amazon is buying us” guys in the union who have zero inside information but preach this as fact based on some clickbait articles they’ve read.

Originally Posted by DC8DRIVER

No inside information, but the initial agreement between AAWW and Amazon included warrants for Amazon to acquire up to 30% of Atlas Air stock and a seat on the board of directors. Not clickbait; company annual reports.

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d.../htm_53487.htm