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Old 02-20-2019, 07:23 AM   #61  
Seeing the World
 
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Couldn’t agree more with sentiment of not coming to Atlas as a new hire.

It is a place you could get stuck at as an FO and not build a lot of time.

You would help The current pilots, and the ACMI industry as a whole if you stayed away. The ONLY way the company gets serious, is if they cannot hire pilots.

I couldn’t disagree more with pilots who are leaving and not going to a top tier final workplace airline, just to leave Atlas or Southern. A new contract will come eventually, and Atlas will again be the place to work, as they were in 2012.

Everybody’s situation is different but please stop taking what you read on here as truth. There is usually just enough truth, that it hooks you, and you start to believe the exaggerated parts.

Lastly, it could be a very bad idea for current pilots at Atlas to encourage junior pilots to leave. This is a very destructive road to go down. The company will still continue to hire and replace the lost pilots. The ones you get with lower minimum will make you very uncomfortable when you fly with them. When the contract is settled, there will be growth and these pilots, who should have never been there to begin with, will become Captains. Ball up a couple of aircraft due to poor decision making and a lack of crew experience and you are all suddenly out of work.
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Old 02-20-2019, 12:57 PM   #62  
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Lastly, it could be a very bad idea for current pilots at Atlas to encourage junior pilots to leave. This is a very destructive road to go down. The company will still continue to hire and replace the lost pilots. The ones you get with lower minimum will make you very uncomfortable when you fly with them. When the contract is settled, there will be growth and these pilots, who should have never been there to begin with, will become Captains. Ball up a couple of aircraft due to poor decision making and a lack of crew experience and you are all suddenly out of work.
Max, I agree with your statement but you guys at Atlas are in the same predicament as we are at ABX. Our management is refusing to negotiate in good faith. Due to be working under the RLA, the only leverage we have is the outside pressure from the labor market. I understand that this tactic might backfire in the long run but we have to take our chances.

Look what happened at K4. Before getting a new CBA they had plenty of applicants. Now they have more people than they can shake a stick at. I think the quality will improve at Atlas and ABX once a CBA is signed. In the meantime we have to use whatever resource we have available to us.

Just my opinion.
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Old 02-20-2019, 10:23 PM   #63  
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You need look no further than the targeted ads on this website, they used to tout career earnings. Now they might as well say “join Atlas and get selfies eating food in cool places!” They have pivoted to marketing the job as the aviation equivalent of a “year abroad” after college before settling down and getting a real job.

A few months in the sandbox! Wow what a pilot life!
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Old 02-20-2019, 10:28 PM   #64  
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Originally Posted by maxjet View Post
Couldn’t agree more with sentiment of not coming to Atlas as a new hire.

It is a place you could get stuck at as an FO and not build a lot of time.

You would help The current pilots, and the ACMI industry as a whole if you stayed away. The ONLY way the company gets serious, is if they cannot hire pilots.

I couldn’t disagree more with pilots who are leaving and not going to a top tier final workplace airline, just to leave Atlas or Southern. A new contract will come eventually, and Atlas will again be the place to work, as they were in 2012.

Everybody’s situation is different but please stop taking what you read on here as truth. There is usually just enough truth, that it hooks you, and you start to believe the exaggerated parts.

Lastly, it could be a very bad idea for current pilots at Atlas to encourage junior pilots to leave. This is a very destructive road to go down. The company will still continue to hire and replace the lost pilots. The ones you get with lower minimum will make you very uncomfortable when you fly with them. When the contract is settled, there will be growth and these pilots, who should have never been there to begin with, will become Captains. Ball up a couple of aircraft due to poor decision making and a lack of crew experience and you are all suddenly out of work.
I have to agree with most of your post.

There is one flip flop of little things that might bite our own leadership here, not that it doesn't deserve it.

With our numbers earlier quoted, members that are over a couple of years here are now the majority of the membership. Our current leadership find themselves in the same position they took office from very competent leaders. Let alone the purge our current committee ranks with new union producers within the union that wouldn't just say "yes sir, how high" on a number of issues internally and subsequently were fired by our leadership trying were trying to weaponize various union committees at the expense of cremembers.
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Old 02-21-2019, 05:00 AM   #65  
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I have to agree with most of your post.

There is one flip flop of little things that might bite our own leadership here, not that it doesn't deserve it.

With our numbers earlier quoted, members that are over a couple of years here are now the majority of the membership. Our current leadership find themselves in the same position they took office from very competent leaders. Let alone the purge our current committee ranks with new union producers within the union that wouldn't just say "yes sir, how high" on a number of issues internally and subsequently were fired by our leadership trying were trying to weaponize various union committees at the expense of cremembers.
We faced a very similar but different problem at K4. Great local leadership but horrible 1224 leadership. Hence ALPA now on property. We had more than a handful of pilots go to Atlas when things looked bleak and I was almost one of them. I think that most of them probably regret that move.

When AAWW finally gets that new contract it will again be the place to work. That being said, the acrimony between parties will never go away and you will work in a house like UPS. FedEx and K4 will most likely always have a better work environment emotionally.

My point is simply, if you are not at AAWW please don’t go there. If you are, you should stay unless you are offered your forever job. Union or Union leadership problems can be solved AFTER you obtain your contract.

Being critical of your side only adds fuel to managements argument with any concerned share holders. If you think that they haven’t taken posts from these websites completely out of context and used them to assuage a concerned share holder you would be naive to the process.

The biggest mistake 1224 made was assuming that because AAWW’s financial house was a deck of cards, that a slowdown in revenue stream would bring them to the table. Worked at other airlines and should have worked here. I thought it was a great plan.

Unfortunately, the AAWW board is better than anyone else in this area and has kicked your butts and would in my opinion have the same results at Delta.
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Old 02-21-2019, 08:51 AM   #66  
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Couldn’t agree more with sentiment of not coming to Atlas as a new hire.

It is a place you could get stuck at as an FO and not build a lot of time.

You would help The current pilots, and the ACMI industry as a whole if you stayed away. The ONLY way the company gets serious, is if they cannot hire pilots.

I couldn’t disagree more with pilots who are leaving and not going to a top tier final workplace airline, just to leave Atlas or Southern. A new contract will come eventually, and Atlas will again be the place to work, as they were in 2012.

Everybody’s situation is different but please stop taking what you read on here as truth. There is usually just enough truth, that it hooks you, and you start to believe the exaggerated parts.

Lastly, it could be a very bad idea for current pilots at Atlas to encourage junior pilots to leave. This is a very destructive road to go down. The company will still continue to hire and replace the lost pilots. The ones you get with lower minimum will make you very uncomfortable when you fly with them. When the contract is settled, there will be growth and these pilots, who should have never been there to begin with, will become Captains. Ball up a couple of aircraft due to poor decision making and a lack of crew experience and you are all suddenly out of work.
I'm glad I agree with you on some stuff!

Just to build on it... Most of those leaving are headed to FedEx, Delta and UPS. There are some leaving for places like JetBlue or Spirit but most of those are very junior. There was a Captain who left for JetBlue last year but I'd agree that it's worth waiting it out if you've got some seniority and that's your best offer.

I definitely saw some weaker FOs when I was walking out the door. Who knows what they'll become but it was certainly worrisome. I don't really think there's much the pilot group can do to avoid it because people will leave for Purple or Brown and management will replace them with.... At this point... Whatever will work there.
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