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Old 02-17-2019, 11:58 AM   #1  
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Default Southern Air

So, the last Southern thread closed. Iím making this one to keep up with everything Southern Air.

Hereís my question, how are things on the 777 side? QOL, monthly credit, days off, schedule, type of flying, upgrades, training department, and overall morale?

TIA
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Old 02-17-2019, 12:26 PM   #2  
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Originally Posted by SoFloFlyer View Post
So, the last Southern thread closed. Iím making this one to keep up with everything Southern Air.

Hereís my question, how are things on the 777 side? QOL, monthly credit, days off, schedule, type of flying, upgrades, training department, and overall morale?

TIA
Standby for all the haters....most of which donít even fly the 777 for Southern but are experts at answering your questions and giving advice. Wait for it...wait for it...
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Old 02-17-2019, 02:58 PM   #3  
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Standby for all the haters....most of which donít even fly the 777 for Southern but are experts at answering your questions and giving advice. Wait for it...wait for it...
Oh God.... 😪
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Old 02-17-2019, 04:30 PM   #4  
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Hopefully a a recent 777 hire will post or PM you. Their perspective will be more helpful to you than mine. If youíve picked through the previous SouthernAir posts for the tidbits of useful information nothing has changed.
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Old 02-17-2019, 06:43 PM   #5  
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Here’s my question, how are things on the 777 side? QOL, monthly credit, days off, schedule, type of flying, upgrades, training department, and overall morale?

TIA
I'm not at Southern, but I am at Atlas. So, I will be able to answer (to the best of my knowledge) some of your questions rather objectively.

1. The most recent vacancy award at Southern that I see shows the most Junior CA position for the 777 awarded to a 11/01/2010 hire.

2. As far as days off go: I don't know if the recent LOA has been completely implemented yet, which would impact what the answer is. If the LOA has not been fully implemented, then my understand is that the Southern guys fly 20 days and then receive 10 days off. *I think* that the LOA will go into full effect sometime this summer, in which case the schedule is up to 17 days per month (not including days to travel to/from work) with the possibility of being extended an additional 3 days.

4. For monthly credit, it's a bit complicated. Essentially, it's the greater of minimum guarantee (50 hours for the 1st year, 62 hours thereafter), actual block time, or CRT. CRT is basically 4.85 hours of pay for every 24 hours on the road, but keep in mind that this is prorated. For instance: if your report time on the first day of work is 23z and you finish up at 1z on the last day, you'll get 4.85 hours per day for the time in between, and 0.2 hours of pay for the first and last days.

5. To my knowledge, the 777 essentially goes to the same 5 or 6 locations in a round-the-world style pattern. I don't believe there is very much variety outside of that.

That's all objective to the best of my knowledge.

As far as my opinion goes:

Atlas and Southern pilots are in this current fight together. Personally, I think that it will be another 2-3 years at the earliest before we a new CBA is a reasonable possibility. Depending on the outcome of pending arbitrations, there is the very real possibility that the Atlas and Southern pilot groups will have no say in what goes into our next CBA. Rather, it will be decided for us by a third party arbitrator.

There are so many things that are lacking in our current CBA that can make things here very frustrating. For example: we have no sort of pay protection besides minimum guarantee. That means that if you ever call in sick, have training in a given month, take vacation, or are sent home for home reserve, the only money that you will be making for that month is 62 hours (50 hours for the first month).

I try to tell guys that are thinking about coming here that if you can't survive on minimum guarantee, life can be pretty stressful here. That's all that you can reasonably expect to make (at least on the Atlas 767 side, and on the Southern 737 side as well, I would imagine).

Hope this helps with your decision making. Let me know if there are any other general CBA questions that you have. (I'll have more insight into that, now that Atlas and Southern essentially have the same CBA).
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Old 02-17-2019, 07:48 PM   #6  
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I'm not at Southern, but I am at Atlas. So, I will be able to answer (to the best of my knowledge) some of your questions rather objectively.

1. The most recent vacancy award at Southern that I see shows the most Junior CA position for the 777 awarded to a 11/01/2010 hire.

2. As far as days off go: I don't know if the recent LOA has been completely implemented yet, which would impact what the answer is. If the LOA has not been fully implemented, then my understand is that the Southern guys fly 20 days and then receive 10 days off. *I think* that the LOA will go into full effect sometime this summer, in which case the schedule is up to 17 days per month (not including days to travel to/from work) with the possibility of being extended an additional 3 days.

4. For monthly credit, it's a bit complicated. Essentially, it's the greater of minimum guarantee (50 hours for the 1st year, 62 hours thereafter), actual block time, or CRT. CRT is basically 4.85 hours of pay for every 24 hours on the road, but keep in mind that this is prorated. For instance: if your report time on the first day of work is 23z and you finish up at 1z on the last day, you'll get 4.85 hours per day for the time in between, and 0.2 hours of pay for the first and last days.

5. To my knowledge, the 777 essentially goes to the same 5 or 6 locations in a round-the-world style pattern. I don't believe there is very much variety outside of that.

That's all objective to the best of my knowledge.

As far as my opinion goes:

Atlas and Southern pilots are in this current fight together. Personally, I think that it will be another 2-3 years at the earliest before we a new CBA is a reasonable possibility. Depending on the outcome of pending arbitrations, there is the very real possibility that the Atlas and Southern pilot groups will have no say in what goes into our next CBA. Rather, it will be decided for us by a third party arbitrator.

There are so many things that are lacking in our current CBA that can make things here very frustrating. For example: we have no sort of pay protection besides minimum guarantee. That means that if you ever call in sick, have training in a given month, take vacation, or are sent home for home reserve, the only money that you will be making for that month is 62 hours (50 hours for the first month).

I try to tell guys that are thinking about coming here that if you can't survive on minimum guarantee, life can be pretty stressful here. That's all that you can reasonably expect to make (at least on the Atlas 767 side, and on the Southern 737 side as well, I would imagine).

Hope this helps with your decision making. Let me know if there are any other general CBA questions that you have. (I'll have more insight into that, now that Atlas and Southern essentially have the same CBA).
This is really good info, thanks! Also, I appreciate how you kept it objective instead of going off on a rant.

Iíd be coming from the 135 side. I have the option of going to a regional or applying to Atlas/Southern. But as much as I love the shiny jet, I donít want to make my decision off of the possibility of flying the B777. Gonna need to give this some more serious thought before pulling the trigger on either route.

Again, I really do appreciate the input!
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Old 02-17-2019, 07:55 PM   #7  
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This is really good info, thanks! Also, I appreciate how you kept it objective instead of going off on a rant.

Iíd be coming from the 135 side. I have the option of going to a regional or applying to Atlas/Southern. But as much as I love the shiny jet, I donít want to make my decision off of the possibility of flying the B777. Gonna need to give this some more serious thought before pulling the trigger on either route.

Again, I really do appreciate the input!
The 777 has added some new routes, and they seem to be adding something new every few months. This place is a whole different animal if you live in base and can drive to work and have layovers at home. Gateway is for the birds.
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Old 02-18-2019, 02:45 AM   #8  
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This is really good info, thanks! Also, I appreciate how you kept it objective instead of going off on a rant.

Iíd be coming from the 135 side. I have the option of going to a regional or applying to Atlas/Southern. But as much as I love the shiny jet, I donít want to make my decision off of the possibility of flying the B777. Gonna need to give this some more serious thought before pulling the trigger on either route.

Again, I really do appreciate the input!
No problem. I came to atlas from a part 135 gig as well. Best advice that I ever received was to make sure that I could live on minimum pay here. Although the recruiters claimed that Iíd be making 75-80 hours a month, that just hasnít been the case. I consider it lucky whenever I break guarantee.

Been at Atlas for about 3 years. I was making decent (but not nearly fantastic) money at my 135 gig, and after 3 years here Iíve still never earned what I used to earn there.
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Old 02-18-2019, 04:10 AM   #9  
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In every situation itís prudent to make sure you can live of min guarantee as well....thatís guaranteed.
Budget accordingly.

As far as 777 at Southern....if you qualify for the job youíre better off applying at Atlas for the 74.
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Old 02-18-2019, 04:21 AM   #10  
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Good morning. I have just a few questions:

I know that Southern had home basing, and is transitioning to gateway basing - does that mean that the base is 'officially' CVG, and is where the majority of trips start /end?

I know that MMG is 50/62 - but is that a fair representation of how much block one can expect each month on the 777?

It has been mentioned that the 747 operation is better than the 777, but both are better than the 767/737. There is no preference given though to 747 vs 767 at Atlas - so applying to Southern 777 is probably the best bet to avoid Atlas 767, correct?

Thank you!
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