nitefreight

For anyone interested, this is a link to the oral argument that occurred on May 3, 2019, in the Second Circuit court, regarding the pending appeal. For now, click on oral arguments for the past 7 days in the drop-down menu and you will see the link.



Oral Arguments


The case number is 18-1086.

JackStraw

Didn’t sound very good for the home team. It’s safe to say we lost that one. Gleason sounds outgunned. At least he’s getting rich in this whole boondoggle.

BluePAX

Ouch... Even if you had zero clue what was being discussed you can decipher who was pleading a lost case and who had won it.

JonnyKnoxville

Although he is paid well by average U.S. income standards, he makes half to a third of the amount of money he could make if he were to work for the other side with his skill set. Even if this court appears not to be sympathetic to our arguments in this specific case, we are lucky to have him and lucky he chooses to work with the home team and not just chase the money.

scrupulous

While E.G. did his best and I congratulate him, he can only represent an argument that might play out in court versus his clients just requesting him to flinging fecal matter and seeing what sticks. This outcome was known ahead of time. Really just a waste of union money.

Reminds me of several divorce stories where no one wins and everyone pays out the posterior with no gain.

Not unlike the last merger at Atlas.

Fit4Doody

Question for current Atlas pilots: say the company does win in court. What is the penalty the pilots/union will have to pay? Is it financial? Is it some sort of monetary gain? How could the company possible come out of this a “winner” in any sort of way? As an outsider I’m stunned that an airline management would sue their pilot group for some sort of compensation in the midst of stalled contact negotiations and recruiting efforts....why would I go to Atlas if the Union will have to pay financial restitutions with pilot dues money?

742Dash

The issue is how negotiations go forward; Section 6 or arbitration under the CBA merger provisions.

atpcliff

My understanding is that if the company wins this court case, then the Atlas and Southern arbitrations to decide if the carriers need to amalgamate, before contract negotations, will be valid. If so, and if mgmt wins both the Atlas, and Southern arbitrations, then the Atlas and Southern seniority lists will be merged. Then a contract will be negotiated that will not be voted on by the pilots.

If Atlas mgmt loses this court case, or loses the Atlas arbitration, or loses the Southern arbitration, then the pilots will get to vote on the new contract.

tankerdude

To add to that, if the company wins both cases, it triggers the union to start merging the seniority lists. That has no time limit. My guess is it will be painfully long and management will see the mass exodus increasing in scope while the union thoroughly decides the best way to merge. THEN once the list is done, negotiations take place over a 9 month period. THEN anything not agreed to goes to binding arbitration. So, the likelihood of a contact in the next 3 years is minute...

itsjustajob

After listening to the case, Mr. Gleason stated exactly what needed to be stated that is "the Company is Atlas Air, Inc." and is the only party to the CBA; Atlas Air the holdings company is not and demanded to be excluded from any legal ties for any purpose during the CBA's inception, and therefore the Holdings company has no rights to demand or trigger any component of the contract to include demanding a management grievance permitted in the CBA by its signatories.

To be clear, Southern Air, Inc. was purchased by Atlas the Holdings company, not Atlas Air, Inc. the airline.

The briefs that were submitted to the court layout the detailed arguments, the oral arguments are NOT the case, but are used solely as an opportunity to highlight or fill in any areas at question to the judges.

Appellate cases are argued almost exclusively in the briefs, a 10 minute tape cannot possibly be used to make a determination of outcome.