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Old 05-12-2019, 11:56 AM   #1  
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Default So is Atlas going to survive?

I ask that because the place seems to be a dumpster fire - at least if your only source of info is APC. Management is apparently suing the pilots, the pilots are alleging that the (too) few new hires they are getting are often too inexperienced to hack the type-ratings and those few that do are often taking their new type rating and immediately pulling the handles for anywhere else, while the ones who wash out in the attempt are now left with no job and a permanent stain on their record.

And seriously, $80 an hour to be an FO on a 747? With a 62 hour guarantee? Thatís like what? Maybe $60K your first year? I mean, Republic pays their first year FOs better than that (counting the bonus). And yeah, I know, back in the day some of us walked to school (at least to the bus stop) uphill both ways, but that was then and this is now. You gotta live in the real world.

You donít have to be a rocket scientist to see why they might be having trouble competing here.

So is it REALLY that bad? And if it is, is survival of Atlas even possible? Because you can only get so far behind the power curve before a crash sort of becomes inevitable.

https://youtu.be/Q2qqKwndFW0
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Old 05-12-2019, 12:18 PM   #2  
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Another Atlas thread. Sweet
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Old 05-12-2019, 12:31 PM   #3  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog View Post
I ask that because the place seems to be a dumpster fire - at least if your only source of info is APC. Management is apparently suing the pilots, the pilots are alleging that the (too) few new hires they are getting are often too inexperienced to hack the type-ratings and those few that do are often taking their new type rating and immediately pulling the handles for anywhere else, while the ones who wash out in the attempt are now left with no job and a permanent stain on their record.

And seriously, $80 an hour to be an FO on a 747? With a 62 hour guarantee? That’s like what? Maybe $60K your first year? I mean, Republic pays their first year FOs better than that (counting the bonus). And yeah, I know, back in the day some of us walked to school (at least to the bus stop) uphill both ways, but that was then and this is now. You gotta live in the real world.

You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to see why they might be having trouble competing here.

So is it REALLY that bad? And if it is, is survival of Atlas even possible? Because you can only get so far behind the power curve before a crash sort of becomes inevitable.

https://youtu.be/Q2qqKwndFW0
A few things that jump to mind here:
1) Atlas is done with their growing phase and I think management is comfortable on that side of the house as far as staffing airplanes goes. Remember that despite how awful things have deteriorated and much better job options being available, pilots are still applying. We even have quite a few current pilots helping their friends get hired. Misery loves company.

2) Southern Air is the newest concern for the company in regards to staffing as all the growth will be over there from here on out. Why anyone apply is beyond comprehension. But, they’re willing to pay for 2 time-building 737s to fly just for the sole purpose of giving spikey-haired millennials their ATPs. They are willing to throw money at the problem as long as none of it touches a pilot’s bank account. So, they’ll continue to eek by.

3) The overall culture will not considerably improve until we get a contract and with the way things are tied up in the court system that is years away. Even if the judges decide in the favor of the pilots with the arbitration hearings we then negotiate separate CBAs for the merger, which could take multiple years. If we lose, a CBA is not negotiated but shoved down our throats. So, it’s essentially a lose-lose on our end. (Yes, I said it)

4) Kalitta already makes nearly double what Atlas pilots make and their contract is amendable in less than a year. So, they’re likely to see an even better agreement before we even start negotiating the important sections of “contract 2016”. So, yes. Atlas is behind the power curve, but only from a pilot perspective. Management has us right where they want us.
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Old 05-12-2019, 03:32 PM   #4  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Excargodog View Post
I ask that because the place seems to be a dumpster fire - at least if your only source of info is APC.

You gotta live in the real world.
I'm hoping you see the dissonance between those two statements.
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Old 05-12-2019, 04:10 PM   #5  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Excargodog View Post
I ask that because the place seems to be a dumpster fire - at least if your only source of info is APC. Management is apparently suing the pilots, the pilots are alleging that the (too) few new hires they are getting are often too inexperienced to hack the type-ratings and those few that do are often taking their new type rating and immediately pulling the handles for anywhere else, while the ones who wash out in the attempt are now left with no job and a permanent stain on their record.

And seriously, $80 an hour to be an FO on a 747? With a 62 hour guarantee? Thatís like what? Maybe $60K your first year? I mean, Republic pays their first year FOs better than that (counting the bonus). And yeah, I know, back in the day some of us walked to school (at least to the bus stop) uphill both ways, but that was then and this is now. You gotta live in the real world.

You donít have to be a rocket scientist to see why they might be having trouble competing here.

So is it REALLY that bad? And if it is, is survival of Atlas even possible? Because you can only get so far behind the power curve before a crash sort of becomes inevitable.

https://youtu.be/Q2qqKwndFW0
It's impossible to make $60k first year at Atlas unless you're gone 25 days a month or so... The first 4 months are at $1600 a month and then there's a 50 hour guarantee all those months you call in sick or have training. You might be able to crack $50k on the 747.
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Old 05-12-2019, 04:15 PM   #6  
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Originally Posted by Globemaster2827 View Post
It's impossible to make $60k first year at Atlas unless you're gone 25 days a month or so... The first 4 months are at $1600 a month and then there's a 50 hour guarantee all those months you call in sick or have training. You might be able to crack $50k on the 747.

year-2 ?



what does that look like ?
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Old 05-12-2019, 04:29 PM   #7  
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Originally Posted by Globemaster2827 View Post
It's impossible to make $60k first year at Atlas unless you're gone 25 days a month or so... The first 4 months are at $1600 a month and then there's a 50 hour guarantee all those months you call in sick or have training. You might be able to crack $50k on the 747.
SERIOUSLY? I knew they paid less than Kalitta but I thought they had a lot more work rules that closed the gap......
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Old 05-12-2019, 04:57 PM   #8  
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AFAICT, Atlas is relying on a captive workforce (being an Atlas C/A is still arguably better than being a Kalitta F/O, particularly with upgrade times climbing at K4) leavened by "anywhere but here" regional refugees. This might not be the worst strategy, provided they aren't looking to grow. And herein lies the rub. They've hitched their wagon pretty firmly to Amazon, which gives no indication of having any intentions OTHER than growth. My best guess is that Atlas is hoping to squeak by with what they've got until the next downturn, at which point they'll be cheaper than the companies with better contracts, and can keep the peasants in line with a concessionary contract that promises to let them all keep working and make the mortgage payment on that van down by the river.
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Old 05-12-2019, 05:51 PM   #9  
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I'm hoping you see the dissonance between those two statements.
Thank you for your concern, Mark. Had I been unaware of that dissonance, I would not have been soliciting additional information. Not actually KNOWING anyone who works at Atlas, I must take my information where I can get it and do the best I can to ascertain how reliable that information is.

Take the info from Globemaster (above)

I had completely forgotten the part of the Payscale info that said:

Quote:
During training pay is $1600.00 per month plus per diem of $2.40 an hour until leaving MIA

Plan on 4 Months at $1600 a month, due to OE being backed up

First year pay begins upon completion of OE or four months from hire date, whichever occurs first.

First year Guarantee is only 50 hours.

All travel and hotels to and from your base is imputed and taxed on your monthly pay statements.
Now once he said it, I looked back, and the truth of his statement was easily verifiable. I had seen the 62 hour guarantee and not even noticed that the first year guarantee was only 50 hours at $80/hr (roughly $4000 a month) and that even that doesn't start until after the first four months at $1600 a month. So yes, I stand corrected in my assumption that a first year FO might actually make $60K. Despite that "dissonance", by posting here I did indeed improve my estimate of the financial situation if I were to apply to Atlas.

So yes, thanks again for telling me the blooming obvious. Should you actually have pertinent information to provide reletaive to the question rather than mere snide jibes at my naÔvetť, that would be even more welcome.
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Old 05-13-2019, 06:35 AM   #10  
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Originally Posted by BarrySeal View Post
year-2 ?



what does that look like ?
I'm guessing about $90k year two. and an additional $4.5k every year after until you upgrade. Just a guess though...
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