Furloughs coming to Atlas
07-21-2019, 08:16 AM
#181
Pronounced Kep-Ten
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Position: Left
Posts: 179
Originally Posted by flyguy23
That is not at all how that went down with Republic. The new contract was signed well in advance of the bankruptcy filing and not touched during ch. 11. The company wanted all labor disputes settled before filing in order to ease the restructuring process. VERY different game from what's going on with Atlas. Republic made it clear the pilots were very much part of the future success of the company while Atlas seems to be playing a much different game.
The BK was announced almost immediately afterwards and most debts were discharged, the stocks again started to fall and the company was eventual delisted from nasdaq, but pilot morale started going up.
The morale was low, prior to the contract. The overall relationship between pilots and management was not at all pretty and I even remember a few groups trying to strike over the conditions and amount of time that it was taking to get a new contract. Eventually, they got the LBFO contract. The pilots then voted that in.
07-21-2019, 11:48 AM
#182
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Posts: 261
Originally Posted by RyeMex
So, in a recent SEC filing it has come to light that the top 5 executives at AAWH have all been granted retention bonuses: $500,000 each if they stay on through 2020, and an additional $1 Million each if they stay on through the end of 2021.
One could read this in one of two ways: either we are about to file Ch. 11 bankruptcy protection (anyone see that article about how much Debt we have taken on?) or we are about to be sold.
Just a little clarification for those who might think that the company being sold would be a good thing (as in, Amazon) and thus a reason to get on property, keep this in mind:
In the latest scope negotiation with the company, the company said that they want scope that will allow them to vastly grow their dry leasing business. I.E., they want the ability to start leasing out our fleet without leasing the crews along with it.
Additionally, the company has implied that they want to make sure that in the next CBA that the pilots are not tied to the airframes. They think that if the pilots on property have the right to fly our own airframes (translation: our job security) that they will not be able to sell the company as easily.
AAWH has big plans in the future. Unfortunately, these plans do not seem to include any of the crewmembers who have grown this airline on their backs.
Remember, we do not have a single ACMI agreement with Amazon. We have leased Amazon airframes for a period of 10 years, and then separately have leased crew services for a period of 7 years (of which, we have maybe 3.5 remaining). The deal was intentionally written so that, after 7 years (or even sooner with 180 days written notice), all of the crewmembers at Atlas/Southern will be kicked off of the airplanes that they have been flying.
One could read this in one of two ways: either we are about to file Ch. 11 bankruptcy protection (anyone see that article about how much Debt we have taken on?) or we are about to be sold.
Just a little clarification for those who might think that the company being sold would be a good thing (as in, Amazon) and thus a reason to get on property, keep this in mind:
In the latest scope negotiation with the company, the company said that they want scope that will allow them to vastly grow their dry leasing business. I.E., they want the ability to start leasing out our fleet without leasing the crews along with it.
Additionally, the company has implied that they want to make sure that in the next CBA that the pilots are not tied to the airframes. They think that if the pilots on property have the right to fly our own airframes (translation: our job security) that they will not be able to sell the company as easily.
AAWH has big plans in the future. Unfortunately, these plans do not seem to include any of the crewmembers who have grown this airline on their backs.
Remember, we do not have a single ACMI agreement with Amazon. We have leased Amazon airframes for a period of 10 years, and then separately have leased crew services for a period of 7 years (of which, we have maybe 3.5 remaining). The deal was intentionally written so that, after 7 years (or even sooner with 180 days written notice), all of the crewmembers at Atlas/Southern will be kicked off of the airplanes that they have been flying.
Retention Agreements
In order to facilitate an effective leadership transition and to promote business continuity, each of the Company’s other named executive officers, Adam R. Kokas, Executive Vice President, General Counsel and Secretary, Spencer Schwartz, Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer, and Michael T. Steen, Executive Vice President and Chief Commercial Officer, was granted a retention bonus opportunity as follows: subject to continued employment, each recipient would become entitled to receive $500,000 as of December 31, 2020 and $1,000,000 as of December 31, 2021. Each executive would also be eligible to receive any unpaid portion of the retention bonus upon a termination by the Company without “cause,” by the executive for “good reason,” or upon the executive’s death or “disability” (in each case as such term is defined in the applicable award agreement).
A copy of the Company’s related press release is attached hereto as Exhibit 99.1 and is incorporated herein by reference.
Item 8.01 Other Events.
In connection with the changes to the Company’s leadership referred to above, the Board approved certain amendments to the Company’s Corporate Governance Principles (as amended, the “Amended Principles”), which shall be effective as of the Transition Date. Among other things, the Amended Principles provide that a Lead Independent Director may be appointed any time the Chairman of the Board is not an independent director. A copy of the Amended Principles is posted on the Company’s website at Home - Atlas Air Worldwide.
In order to facilitate an effective leadership transition and to promote business continuity, each of the Company’s other named executive officers, Adam R. Kokas, Executive Vice President, General Counsel and Secretary, Spencer Schwartz, Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer, and Michael T. Steen, Executive Vice President and Chief Commercial Officer, was granted a retention bonus opportunity as follows: subject to continued employment, each recipient would become entitled to receive $500,000 as of December 31, 2020 and $1,000,000 as of December 31, 2021. Each executive would also be eligible to receive any unpaid portion of the retention bonus upon a termination by the Company without “cause,” by the executive for “good reason,” or upon the executive’s death or “disability” (in each case as such term is defined in the applicable award agreement).
A copy of the Company’s related press release is attached hereto as Exhibit 99.1 and is incorporated herein by reference.
Item 8.01 Other Events.
In connection with the changes to the Company’s leadership referred to above, the Board approved certain amendments to the Company’s Corporate Governance Principles (as amended, the “Amended Principles”), which shall be effective as of the Transition Date. Among other things, the Amended Principles provide that a Lead Independent Director may be appointed any time the Chairman of the Board is not an independent director. A copy of the Amended Principles is posted on the Company’s website at Home - Atlas Air Worldwide.
07-21-2019, 05:50 PM
#183
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Captain
Posts: 130
Originally Posted by wjcandee
I can't imagine that Amazon would ever want to deal directly with pilots' unions. And have only one basket for its eggs. So it makes no sense.
Look at the global picture so far. Amazon is putting ads out weekly on LinkedIn and trade publications looking for personnel with airline and operational management experience. They are poaching every FedEx and UPS executive they can. They’ve moved into the old Comair operations building in CVG and doing millions in upgrades to it.
They’re running a shadow operation right behind Atlas and Southern schedulers and dispatchers. Making decisions on how much if any extra fuel a Captain can put on, routings etc. That’s not hearsay.
We have the fleet plan, 20 767’s on the ramp plus spares and 20 737s to be delivered thru May 2021.
Now for those retention agreements, 1.5 million on top of the 66 million the top 5 executives get if Amazon takes their warrants for 40% of Atlas stock, takes operational control or moves company headquarters out of NY. 1.5 million to be paid out Dec 31 2021, coincidentally that’s 6 months after Amazon is opening their 1.5 billion Prime Air hub at CVG June 2021. Oh look! There’s a 6 month termination clause Amazon has in their CMI contract, how convenient....They can cut the Atlas and Southern crews loose without cause at any time.
Now the execs are on record saying they want no scope limitations that would prevent greatly increased dry leasing or sale of airframes without the pilots. If the arbitrator rules in their favor this fall they’ll get exactly what they want. No job protections for any pilot here.
IMHO the timing and coincidences are just too glaring taken in context with all the behind the curtain maneuvering Amazon is doing.
I see a scenario where very shortly after the CVG hub opens Amazon says “Thanks AAWH for your support and guidance these past 5 years on how to run an airline, we’ll take it from here. Tough luck about your crews but your execs have been well taken care of...your newly unemployed pilots can apply at our new non union Prime Air if they wish”
Whatever happens the pilots will get the short end of the stick.
07-21-2019, 06:10 PM
#184
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 698
Originally Posted by Turbine1
Amazon would never deal with a pilot union, and would never tolerate one on their property after any acquisition whole or in part of AAWH’s fleet. AAWH can deal with the union headaches till the takeover happens. In the meantime delay and delay any new contract for the pilots which is exactly what’s been happening.
Look at the global picture so far. Amazon is putting ads out weekly on LinkedIn and trade publications looking for personnel with airline and operational management experience. They are poaching every FedEx and UPS executive they can. They’ve moved into the old Comair operations building in CVG and doing millions in upgrades to it.
Possibly. AAWW has many routes that are huge money makers- that can’t be transferred.
If Amazon wants to get into some of these select markets - it’s helps to have the routes already.
Furthermore. A new certificate requires years of work. New books, proving runs, route authority, ETOPS certificates, the list goes on. You just don’t wake up and get 777 ETOPS into Hong Kong overnight.
They’re running a shadow operation right behind Atlas and Southern schedulers and dispatchers. Making decisions on how much if any extra fuel a Captain can put on, routings etc. That’s not hearsay.
We have the fleet plan, 20 767’s on the ramp plus spares and 20 737s to be delivered thru May 2021.
Now for those retention agreements, 1.5 million on top of the 66 million the top 5 executives get if Amazon takes their warrants for 40% of Atlas stock, takes operational control or moves company headquarters out of NY. 1.5 million to be paid out Dec 31 2021, coincidentally that’s 6 months after Amazon is opening their 1.5 billion Prime Air hub at CVG June 2021. Oh look! There’s a 6 month termination clause Amazon has in their CMI contract, how convenient....They can cut the Atlas and Southern crews loose without cause at any time.
Now the execs are on record saying they want no scope limitations that would prevent greatly increased dry leasing or sale of airframes without the pilots. If the arbitrator rules in their favor this fall they’ll get exactly what they want. No job protections for any pilot here.
IMHO the timing and coincidences are just too glaring taken in context with all the behind the curtain maneuvering Amazon is doing.
I see a scenario where very shortly after the CVG hub opens Amazon says “Thanks AAWH for your support and guidance these past 5 years on how to run an airline, we’ll take it from here. Tough luck about your crews but your execs have been well taken care of...your newly unemployed pilots can apply at our new non union Prime Air if they wish”
Whatever happens the pilots will get the short end of the stick.
Look at the global picture so far. Amazon is putting ads out weekly on LinkedIn and trade publications looking for personnel with airline and operational management experience. They are poaching every FedEx and UPS executive they can. They’ve moved into the old Comair operations building in CVG and doing millions in upgrades to it.
Possibly. AAWW has many routes that are huge money makers- that can’t be transferred.
If Amazon wants to get into some of these select markets - it’s helps to have the routes already.
Furthermore. A new certificate requires years of work. New books, proving runs, route authority, ETOPS certificates, the list goes on. You just don’t wake up and get 777 ETOPS into Hong Kong overnight.
They’re running a shadow operation right behind Atlas and Southern schedulers and dispatchers. Making decisions on how much if any extra fuel a Captain can put on, routings etc. That’s not hearsay.
We have the fleet plan, 20 767’s on the ramp plus spares and 20 737s to be delivered thru May 2021.
Now for those retention agreements, 1.5 million on top of the 66 million the top 5 executives get if Amazon takes their warrants for 40% of Atlas stock, takes operational control or moves company headquarters out of NY. 1.5 million to be paid out Dec 31 2021, coincidentally that’s 6 months after Amazon is opening their 1.5 billion Prime Air hub at CVG June 2021. Oh look! There’s a 6 month termination clause Amazon has in their CMI contract, how convenient....They can cut the Atlas and Southern crews loose without cause at any time.
Now the execs are on record saying they want no scope limitations that would prevent greatly increased dry leasing or sale of airframes without the pilots. If the arbitrator rules in their favor this fall they’ll get exactly what they want. No job protections for any pilot here.
IMHO the timing and coincidences are just too glaring taken in context with all the behind the curtain maneuvering Amazon is doing.
I see a scenario where very shortly after the CVG hub opens Amazon says “Thanks AAWH for your support and guidance these past 5 years on how to run an airline, we’ll take it from here. Tough luck about your crews but your execs have been well taken care of...your newly unemployed pilots can apply at our new non union Prime Air if they wish”
Whatever happens the pilots will get the short end of the stick.
If Amazon wants to get into some of these select markets - it’s helps to have the routes already.
Furthermore. A new certificate requires years of work. New books, proving runs, route authority, ETOPS certificates, the list goes on. You just don’t wake up and get 777 ETOPS into Hong Kong overnight.
07-21-2019, 07:34 PM
#185
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2019
Posts: 46
Originally Posted by Turbine1
Amazon would never deal with a pilot union, and would never tolerate one on their property after any acquisition whole or in part of AAWH’s fleet. AAWH can deal with the union headaches till the takeover happens. In the meantime delay and delay any new contract for the pilots which is exactly what’s been happening.
Look at the global picture so far. Amazon is putting ads out weekly on LinkedIn and trade publications looking for personnel with airline and operational management experience. They are poaching every FedEx and UPS executive they can. They’ve moved into the old Comair operations building in CVG and doing millions in upgrades to it.
They’re running a shadow operation right behind Atlas and Southern schedulers and dispatchers. Making decisions on how much if any extra fuel a Captain can put on, routings etc. That’s not hearsay.
We have the fleet plan, 20 767’s on the ramp plus spares and 20 737s to be delivered thru May 2021.
Now for those retention agreements, 1.5 million on top of the 66 million the top 5 executives get if Amazon takes their warrants for 40% of Atlas stock, takes operational control or moves company headquarters out of NY. 1.5 million to be paid out Dec 31 2021, coincidentally that’s 6 months after Amazon is opening their 1.5 billion Prime Air hub at CVG June 2021. Oh look! There’s a 6 month termination clause Amazon has in their CMI contract, how convenient....They can cut the Atlas and Southern crews loose without cause at any time.
Now the execs are on record saying they want no scope limitations that would prevent greatly increased dry leasing or sale of airframes without the pilots. If the arbitrator rules in their favor this fall they’ll get exactly what they want. No job protections for any pilot here.
IMHO the timing and coincidences are just too glaring taken in context with all the behind the curtain maneuvering Amazon is doing.
I see a scenario where very shortly after the CVG hub opens Amazon says “Thanks AAWH for your support and guidance these past 5 years on how to run an airline, we’ll take it from here. Tough luck about your crews but your execs have been well taken care of...your newly unemployed pilots can apply at our new non union Prime Air if they wish”
Whatever happens the pilots will get the short end of the stick.
Look at the global picture so far. Amazon is putting ads out weekly on LinkedIn and trade publications looking for personnel with airline and operational management experience. They are poaching every FedEx and UPS executive they can. They’ve moved into the old Comair operations building in CVG and doing millions in upgrades to it.
They’re running a shadow operation right behind Atlas and Southern schedulers and dispatchers. Making decisions on how much if any extra fuel a Captain can put on, routings etc. That’s not hearsay.
We have the fleet plan, 20 767’s on the ramp plus spares and 20 737s to be delivered thru May 2021.
Now for those retention agreements, 1.5 million on top of the 66 million the top 5 executives get if Amazon takes their warrants for 40% of Atlas stock, takes operational control or moves company headquarters out of NY. 1.5 million to be paid out Dec 31 2021, coincidentally that’s 6 months after Amazon is opening their 1.5 billion Prime Air hub at CVG June 2021. Oh look! There’s a 6 month termination clause Amazon has in their CMI contract, how convenient....They can cut the Atlas and Southern crews loose without cause at any time.
Now the execs are on record saying they want no scope limitations that would prevent greatly increased dry leasing or sale of airframes without the pilots. If the arbitrator rules in their favor this fall they’ll get exactly what they want. No job protections for any pilot here.
IMHO the timing and coincidences are just too glaring taken in context with all the behind the curtain maneuvering Amazon is doing.
I see a scenario where very shortly after the CVG hub opens Amazon says “Thanks AAWH for your support and guidance these past 5 years on how to run an airline, we’ll take it from here. Tough luck about your crews but your execs have been well taken care of...your newly unemployed pilots can apply at our new non union Prime Air if they wish”
Whatever happens the pilots will get the short end of the stick.
07-22-2019, 03:20 AM
#187
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Doing Just Fine
Posts: 356
Not certain just how many 747's Atlas have but seems everyone is mentioning Amazon and what "if" they pull the flying etc., but no mention that DHL is stopping 747 flying by the end of 2020. How is that going to also impact them?
07-22-2019, 03:42 AM
#188
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 493
Originally Posted by Turbine1
Amazon would never deal with a pilot union, and would never tolerate one on their property after any acquisition whole or in part of AAWH’s fleet.
Originally Posted by Turbine1
can deal with the union headaches till the takeover happens. In the meantime delay and delay any new contract for the pilots which is exactly what’s been happening.
Originally Posted by Turbine1
Look at the global picture so far. Amazon is putting ads out weekly on LinkedIn and trade publications looking for personnel with airline and operational management experience. They are poaching every FedEx and UPS executive they can. They’ve moved into the old Comair operations building in CVG and doing millions in upgrades to it.
Originally Posted by Turbine1
They’re running a shadow operation right behind Atlas and Southern schedulers and dispatchers. Making decisions on how much if any extra fuel a Captain can put on, routings etc. That’s not hearsay.
Originally Posted by Turbine1
We have the fleet plan, 20 767’s on the ramp plus spares and 20 737s to be delivered thru May 2021.
Originally Posted by Turbine1
Now for those retention agreements, 1.5 million on top of the 66 million the top 5 executives get if Amazon takes their warrants for 40% of Atlas stock, takes operational control or moves company headquarters out of NY. 1.5 million to be paid out Dec 31 2021, coincidentally that’s 6 months after Amazon is opening their 1.5 billion Prime Air hub at CVG June 2021. Oh look! There’s a 6 month termination clause Amazon has in their CMI contract, how convenient....They can cut the Atlas and Southern crews loose without cause at any time.
Originally Posted by Turbine1
Now the execs are on record saying they want no scope limitations that would prevent greatly increased dry leasing or sale of airframes without the pilots. If the arbitrator rules in their favor this fall they’ll get exactly what they want. No job protections for any pilot here.
Originally Posted by Turbine1
IMHO the timing and coincidences are just too glaring taken in context with all the behind the curtain maneuvering Amazon is doing.
I see a scenario where very shortly after the CVG hub opens Amazon says “Thanks AAWH for your support and guidance these past 5 years on how to run an airline, we’ll take it from here. Tough luck about your crews but your execs have been well taken care of...your newly unemployed pilots can apply at our new non union Prime Air if they wish”
I see a scenario where very shortly after the CVG hub opens Amazon says “Thanks AAWH for your support and guidance these past 5 years on how to run an airline, we’ll take it from here. Tough luck about your crews but your execs have been well taken care of...your newly unemployed pilots can apply at our new non union Prime Air if they wish”
Originally Posted by Turbine1
Whatever happens the pilots will get the short end of the stick.
That Amazon is so-actively-involved in designing its network and monitoring its operation might actually be a good thing, because it is keenly-aware on a daily basis of the ability of Atlas to carry out its contract, immediately aware of the direct effect of the current tightness in the pilot labor market on Atlas's ability to staff its operations with suitably-competent pilots. And it is of course aware of the fact that Atlas crashed one of Amazon's leased planes, after a year or so of concerning operational incidents involving new pilots. For me, that bent aircraft at PSM was a huge red flag that the whole world could see, but a lot of Atlas people at the time, frankly, poo-pooed it. It will be interesting to see how the NTSB fits it into the overall picture. We're hearing that Southern is having a raft of these kinds of things, although none have been dramatic enough yet to burble to the surface. Lets hope that AAWW gets its house in order before one does, or some government entity is going to make them do so in a way that is going to be painful for the pilots as well.
Last edited by wjcandee; 07-22-2019 at 04:16 AM.
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