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Old 07-03-2019, 07:28 AM   #21  
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Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
They need to start attacking the RLA the same way the civil rights movement attacked all the laws that constrained civil rights. Instead of playing on a rigged playing field, T1224 needs to attack the very law holding back unionized labor action.

Get into court and argue the RLA was written at a time when the outsourced business model of subcontracting did not exist. You could not go to a PanAm pilot and demand concessions under threat of transferring the flying to TWA. Today we have places like ATSG and AAWW that own multiple subsidiaries and routinely threaten exacly that; take concessions or we transfer your flying to our other subsidiary. We still keep the profits, but you get screwed even more than by these concessions.
The RLA never ever envisioned the outsouced/contractor business model. The restrictions against self help in the RLA makes perfect sense when the flying can not be transferred, and in fact even a strike doesn't transfer work. Not true in the Contractor segment of the industry.

I really think the best thing that T1224 could do would be to file a multi-union class action against the federal government and the related airlines alleging the forced application of the outdated RLA is unlawful in todays business environment.

The intent of the RLA was to maintain a status quo. Clearly there is no status quo when your work can be given away even while in section six.
Courts do not make laws. They uphold laws. The only way to change the RLA is by getting Congress to pass legislation amending it. Good luck on even getting a congressman or senator to even suggest a change in committee let alone ever getting it to a vote.
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Old 07-03-2019, 08:08 AM   #22  
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Courts do not make laws. They uphold laws. The only way to change the RLA is by getting Congress to pass legislation amending it. Good luck on even getting a congressman or senator to even suggest a change in committee let alone ever getting it to a vote.
No, they also invalidate laws..... They recently invalidated portions of the ACA, they recently invalidated sections of laws from a few states. Go ask any of the gay rights movement folks about using the courts to invalidate laws.

It would be very simple for the courts to determine that ACMI (and regionals for that matter) do not fall under the RLA and instead fall under the NLRA. The RLA clearly never envisioned the subcontractor business model. The RLA exists to preserve the status quo for uninterrupted service. There is no status quo in the subcontractor business model. The courts could simply place them under the NLRA until such time as Congress corrects the legislation.

Last edited by Cujo665; 07-03-2019 at 08:23 AM.
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Old 07-03-2019, 08:22 AM   #23  
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"The sky is falling, the sky is falling." - Chicken Little

On a more serious note:

Atlas management is playing a chess game with the Teamster's and they are not even in the same room. The company is at least 10 moves ahead of the union.

With everything that's going on at Atlas/Southern it looks like the management types are hitting the silk on their golden parachutes.

Actually, this does not look good at all. I don't think that Atlas has any intent to keep the company as a viable entity. Too many negative issues have stacked up. They have been playing fast and loose on a number of fronts. It is catching up with them. Use labor issues to obfuscate other problems.

I wonder how the Atlas shareholders would feel about this? Glad I don't have Atlas stock.

I have seen this all before, it doesn't end well for those that have to work for a living.
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Old 07-03-2019, 08:53 AM   #24  
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They need to start attacking the RLA the same way the civil rights movement attacked all the laws that constrained civil rights. Instead of playing on a rigged playing field, T1224 needs to attack the very law holding back unionized labor action.
The intent of the RLA was to maintain a status quo. Clearly there is no status quo when your work can be given away even while in section six.
While T1224 has PACs working the corridors of Congress, so does the company and they have a lot of $$ in their war chests. One of the chief architects of the 117 cargo cutout was Atlas. They were at the Hill last month with our VP of flight ops to make sure any effort to overturn the cutout goes nowhere. Their mission is simple; get the most work out of their crews for the least compensation, to make the most profit for the corporation. In that they have succeeded.

If unions can’t even amend a safety related matter like the cargo cutout that only has been in place a few years, how likely is it they can fix the RLA that’s been in place for decades?

The most power we have right now is with our feet. These bottom of the barrel carriers need to be avoided like the bubonic plague. Mgt will get the message if that happens but so far that isn’t the environment. Apparently candidates out there don’t do their due diligence, don’t mind working for 50% more at 60% less pay, feel no one else will hire them or just have a hard on to fly a heavy. Our last 74 class 28 were planned and 30 showed up. So hiring is outpacing resignations albeit slowly. In the best hiring environment since 1903 people are still more than willing to sell themselves short and bend over. Mgt is laughing all the way to the bank and will continue to take advantage of those who show up at the door. One of our execs said it best. “We’re just going to continue to throw bodies at seats”.

Last edited by Turbine1; 07-03-2019 at 09:04 AM.
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Old 07-03-2019, 09:13 AM   #25  
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Believe you me, if I could get out of this place I would.

Family issues tied me to this place longer than I wanted.

Now I have other challenges that make it very difficult to depart. I have been trying, and will continue.

I have never seen such a caustic management group.
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Old 07-03-2019, 09:15 AM   #26  
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If unions can’t even amend a safety related matter like the cargo cutout that only has been in place a few years, how likely is it they can fix the RLA that’s been in place for decades?
...been in place since 1926. Almost 100 years. Almost 40 percent of the time our country has existed.

You're right. It's a big lift. And not one generally supported by the public, who "know" that transportation unions will choose to strike at the holidays or whatever is the Absolutely Worst Time, over stuff like when we get to take our Baby Days.
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Old 07-03-2019, 11:07 AM   #27  
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Actually, this does not look good at all. I don't think that Atlas has any intent to keep the company as a viable entity. Too many negative issues have stacked up.

I have seen this all before, it doesn't end well for those that have to work for a living.
I’ve actually begun to wonder if that shot across the bow at Atlas by Amazon was more than that. At the rate ATI has been hiring, I’m wondering if ATI is about to be “reallocated” some airplanes from Atlas as Amazon warned.
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Old 07-03-2019, 01:24 PM   #28  
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I’ve actually begun to wonder if that shot across the bow at Atlas by Amazon was more than that. At the rate ATI has been hiring, I’m wondering if ATI is about to be “reallocated” some airplanes from Atlas as Amazon warned.
Yep. My bet is we furlough Jan1st. Company is hell bent on keep wages low. It wouldn’t surprise me for Atlas to throw in the towel and let Amazon or ATI pick up the pieces. They have a contract in place and can hire. We don’t.
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Old 07-03-2019, 01:41 PM   #29  
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Senior management reached out to the union this week regarding scope.

In an effort to strong arm the union, they are threatening to outsource even more flying so they can get the CBA they want.

It wouldn’t surprise me to see them do a small furlough of 50-75 pilots just to see if the union blinks and scare the troops into taking the first offer.

Apparently it was a very heated meeting- the end is no where near.
The company reached out to the union this week? This wasn't scheduled then? They weren't supposed to meet again until the end of July.
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Old 07-03-2019, 01:54 PM   #30  
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The company reached out to the union this week? This wasn't scheduled then? They weren't supposed to meet again until the end of July.
There are always talks ungoing. The meetings are just to appease and put on a show. Management called union asking for scope relief, to discuss more outsourcing.

The last proposal from mgmt was current book. The union and mgmt couldn’t even get a TA down for Deadhead language, after 3 years of negotiations. If anyone thinks a new CBA is near, you’re all grossly mistaking.
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