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Furloughs coming to Atlas

Old 07-13-2019, 07:23 PM
  #71  
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Elevation: I agree that it is an existential issue. I do think that the release of the NTSB report on the Houston accident should put pressure on AMC and the FAA to take action against the carrier, maybe to a much greater degree than sufficient merely to cause management to settle the labor dispute. It could cause long-term damage. WN made a deal with its mechanics because the MAX grounding meant that continued labor strife would be ruinous, and the FAA was already sniffing around and finding stuff. Connie made a deal with his pilots because he wanted to expand and realized, as someone pointed out upthread, that it would be cheaper in the long run to raise wages and get more and better candidates. The ROI on the additional wage expense was positive; it wasn't just about putting butts in cockpit seats, in the manner that Flynn always seems to explain it to shareholders ("We continue to have a good flow of licensed pilots as candidates." Ahem.) Even Atlas could make a deal tomorrow if it wanted to, and I suspect that the Union has a bottom line in mind for total compensation cost that is doable for Atlas if it steps up, like any other financial transaction.

In other words, outside factors can drive deals, and I personally think that that NTSB report is going to be so bad that Atlas really ought to be getting out in front of it, because their current statements about how great their safety programs and training programs are, blah-blah, are going to be eviscerated and will come nowhere near close to extinguishing the resulting brushfire.
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Old 07-13-2019, 08:03 PM
  #72  
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^^^ This. Plus I’m 99% certain the pilot group will NOT get to vote on a contract.
Let’s see what figures the Arbitrator will hand us in the next two years.
Our new CEO come January will approve-
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Old 07-13-2019, 08:40 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by JackStraw View Post
Who cares?
That’s the correct answer. My Man.
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Old 07-14-2019, 02:02 AM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by 4runner View Post
What a cry baby. Try working on a fishing boat in Alaska. Someone who has never done manual labor, gets a warehouse job and writes about how hard it is. Then charges $$$ for her experiences.
Succinct and brilliant.

I looked up a photo of the author. Not inconsistent with her reaction to work that involves movement.
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Old 07-14-2019, 04:15 AM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by wjcandee View Post
The 9 767-200s now operated by Atlas were Airborne Express 767s that ended up under DHL ownership and were continually operated by ABX. DHL put the operation of those aircraft out to bid and contracted with Atlas to operate them. When I say "ABX aircraft", I mean ABX's to operate unless and until DHL took them away, which it did, because it cut a deal with Atlas to operate them. Under ABX's scope clause (as clarified), those could not, for example, have been operated by ATI, but apparently nobody sees a problem with another 1224 (or non-1224) carrier operating them.

All of the DHL business was ABX's to lose. One reason Atlas and Kalitta may be able to offer a financially-superior contract (if they did) is that certain aspects of ABX's work rules (including the day-night transition safety rules) mean that on certain routes it takes up to 30 percent more pilots to operate an ABX aircraft than an Atlas aircraft on the same timetable. Why other 1224 carriers don't insist on the same thing, I don't know.
At K4 we were flying actual Polar flights with Polar callsign. We were in 1224 at the time. 1224 did nothing about it in spite of numerous K4 Pilots notifying 1224 mgt. This went on for a while. Finally, it seems, that enough AAWW pilots became aware of this and a court action was filed causing AAWW mgt from giving (or selling) flights to K4.

Point? 1224 mgt. is ineffective on their own. If there is a legal precedent for ABX keeping “your” aircraft search for it. If you find it start a grass roots campaign to get 1224 to file it for you. BTW, 1224 will allow you to borrow the money from them, for them, to file the legal action, which you will in turn pay back thru union assessments. Nice huh!

If there is no legal leg to stand on, sadly, it is what it is.
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Old 07-14-2019, 09:35 AM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by maxjet View Post
At K4 we were flying actual Polar flights with Polar callsign. We were in 1224 at the time. 1224 did nothing about it in spite of numerous K4 Pilots notifying 1224 mgt. This went on for a while. Finally, it seems, that enough AAWW pilots became aware of this and a court action was filed causing AAWW mgt from giving (or selling) flights to K4.

Point? 1224 mgt. is ineffective on their own. If there is a legal precedent for ABX keeping “your” aircraft search for it. If you find it start a grass roots campaign to get 1224 to file it for you. BTW, 1224 will allow you to borrow the money from them, for them, to file the legal action, which you will in turn pay back thru union assessments. Nice huh!

If there is no legal leg to stand on, sadly, it is what it is.
The only legal precedent for "keeping our" aircraft are the aircraft owned by ATSG and operated by ABX crews prior to ATI/Capital and Omni being part of ATSG. Per ABX's scope. DHL signed a CMI to have ABX crew the DHL owned 9 767 200s ABX was currently operating. I would guess with ABX operating 26 aircraft at the time ...DHL was probably getting nervous. Just like Amazon, I would be surprised in they ever put all their eggs in one basket. They also saw the benefit of moving aircraft, cites, and flts around to prevent any one carrier from being in a stronger position in case they decided to stand up for themselves. The 9 aircraft were theirs to move to who ever is the chosen one one any given day.
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Old 07-14-2019, 11:23 AM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by maxjet View Post
At K4 we were flying actual Polar flights with Polar callsign. We were in 1224 at the time. 1224 did nothing about it in spite of numerous K4 Pilots notifying 1224 mgt. This went on for a while. Finally, it seems, that enough AAWW pilots became aware of this and a court action was filed causing AAWW mgt from giving (or selling) flights to K4.

Point? 1224 mgt. is ineffective on their own. If there is a legal precedent for ABX keeping “your” aircraft search for it. If you find it start a grass roots campaign to get 1224 to file it for you. BTW, 1224 will allow you to borrow the money from them, for them, to file the legal action, which you will in turn pay back thru union assessments. Nice huh!

If there is no legal leg to stand on, sadly, it is what it is.
It is clear from your post that you don’t understand how the arbitration process works. There has to be a violation of actual contract language to start with. Further to the point, one violation is significantly harder to win an award in a pilot group’s favor compared to having multiple events in violation, emails, pictures, witnesses, etc.

Moving quickly is playing checkers, we prefer to play chess.
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Old 07-14-2019, 11:31 AM
  #78  
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Moving quickly is playing checkers, we prefer to play chess.

...........
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Old 07-14-2019, 11:45 AM
  #79  
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Roll your eyes all you want. It must be fun sitting in the cheap seats not lifting a finger while we carry your water. Battles are won, battles are lost but this war isn’t over and even when it does end, the peanut gallery will still be the oxygen thief it is today.
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Old 07-14-2019, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by wjcandee View Post
Succinct and brilliant.

I looked up a photo of the author. Not inconsistent with her reaction to work that involves movement.
She had her leg broken in a “mob attack”. She was writing occasional articles for the well regarded news outlet, The Onion and demanded that the company pay for her medical bills. Her Pulitzer is being deliberated as we speak.
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