Author needs research details confirmed
09-04-2019, 06:15 AM
#1
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Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 22
Author needs research details confirmed
Hello,
My name is Peter Freeman. I'm a published author ("Cape Horn Birthday") available on Amazon and through Seaworthy Publications Inc. at https://www.seaworthy.com/product-p/...48494-04-5.htm
I am preparing my latest fiction novel with a working title of "Deadly Delivery" for publication. As I am not a pilot, I want to ensure my descriptions, radio communications, and procedures are correct.
Some months ago, I elicited help from members of this forum on various details, however now that my manuscript is finished, I would like to work with a pilot who has experience flying commercial jet aircraft to confirm a particular section in my manuscript related to aircraft procedures. As a basis, I would like to ensure the communications exchange between the pilot in the story and ground control is accurate. My story involves a McDonnell-Douglas MD-11F so expertise with this particular aircraft would be a bonus.
My story also involves freight handling (ULDs) on the ground, so procedures related to cargo handling would be a bonus, however it may be out of scope for this pilot's forum.
If you have an interest in helping me, could you reply on this thread, or contact me directly by email: petersfreeman (the domain is shaw dot ca)
Thank you in advance,
Peter.
My name is Peter Freeman. I'm a published author ("Cape Horn Birthday") available on Amazon and through Seaworthy Publications Inc. at https://www.seaworthy.com/product-p/...48494-04-5.htm
I am preparing my latest fiction novel with a working title of "Deadly Delivery" for publication. As I am not a pilot, I want to ensure my descriptions, radio communications, and procedures are correct.
Some months ago, I elicited help from members of this forum on various details, however now that my manuscript is finished, I would like to work with a pilot who has experience flying commercial jet aircraft to confirm a particular section in my manuscript related to aircraft procedures. As a basis, I would like to ensure the communications exchange between the pilot in the story and ground control is accurate. My story involves a McDonnell-Douglas MD-11F so expertise with this particular aircraft would be a bonus.
My story also involves freight handling (ULDs) on the ground, so procedures related to cargo handling would be a bonus, however it may be out of scope for this pilot's forum.
If you have an interest in helping me, could you reply on this thread, or contact me directly by email: petersfreeman (the domain is shaw dot ca)
Thank you in advance,
Peter.
09-13-2019, 07:51 AM
#2
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Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 22
Example of conversation I need critiqued
“Quick, contact traffic control,” Cynthia urged.
Perez flipped a switch.
“Cleveland Centre, LASS two niner seven eight heavy. Declaring Pan Pan Pan. Suspected explosive on board. Unable to land at Dulles,” Captain Perez said.
“LASS two niner seven eight heavy, Cleveland Centre. Roger. Stand by.”
“We can head for the Allegheny National Forest, it’s about twenty minutes flight time on heading 085,” Cynthia told Perez.
“LASS two niner seven eight heavy, Cleveland Centre. Do you have an aircraft handling situation?”
“Cleveland Centre, LASS two niner seven eight heavy. Negative. Device is nuclear. Request routing to Allegheny Forest area. We want to minimize civilian casualties,” Captain Perez suggested.
“LASS two niner seven eight heavy, Cleveland Centre. Roger. Stand by.”
“What the hell is going on?” Captain Perez asked Cynthia.
Perez flipped a switch.
“Cleveland Centre, LASS two niner seven eight heavy. Declaring Pan Pan Pan. Suspected explosive on board. Unable to land at Dulles,” Captain Perez said.
“LASS two niner seven eight heavy, Cleveland Centre. Roger. Stand by.”
“We can head for the Allegheny National Forest, it’s about twenty minutes flight time on heading 085,” Cynthia told Perez.
“LASS two niner seven eight heavy, Cleveland Centre. Do you have an aircraft handling situation?”
“Cleveland Centre, LASS two niner seven eight heavy. Negative. Device is nuclear. Request routing to Allegheny Forest area. We want to minimize civilian casualties,” Captain Perez suggested.
“LASS two niner seven eight heavy, Cleveland Centre. Roger. Stand by.”
“What the hell is going on?” Captain Perez asked Cynthia.
09-13-2019, 08:20 AM
#3
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Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,477
That’s ludicrous. You think you have a nuke on board that’s about to go off and you make a “pan” call?
And you are REQUESTING ATC clear you to an area you can (more or less) safely blow up?
How about declaring an emergency AS YOU head there followed by, “ATC, BE ADVISED that....”
Planes with live nukes on board probably don’t need to ask anyone’s permission to do whatever is necessary to keep from incinerating a few 100,000 people...
And you are REQUESTING ATC clear you to an area you can (more or less) safely blow up?
How about declaring an emergency AS YOU head there followed by, “ATC, BE ADVISED that....”
Planes with live nukes on board probably don’t need to ask anyone’s permission to do whatever is necessary to keep from incinerating a few 100,000 people...
09-13-2019, 08:43 AM
#4
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Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 82
Originally Posted by Excargodog
That’s ludicrous. You think you have a nuke on board that’s about to go off and you make a “pan” call?
And you are REQUESTING ATC clear you to an area you can (more or less) safely blow up?
How about declaring an emergency AS YOU head there followed by, “ATC, BE ADVISED that....”
Planes with live nukes on board probably don’t need to ask anyone’s permission to do whatever is necessary to keep from incinerating a few 100,000 people...
And you are REQUESTING ATC clear you to an area you can (more or less) safely blow up?
How about declaring an emergency AS YOU head there followed by, “ATC, BE ADVISED that....”
Planes with live nukes on board probably don’t need to ask anyone’s permission to do whatever is necessary to keep from incinerating a few 100,000 people...
09-13-2019, 08:50 AM
#5
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,477
Originally Posted by sandman22
Jesus Christ... he's a layman asking a pilot to help him out with the lingo. Of course he's not going to have it entirely accurate. That's why he's asking for help.
OK, maybe if I’m the engineer on a train and need switches thrown, but otherwise...
09-13-2019, 09:44 AM
#6
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2019
Posts: 229
Originally Posted by petersfreeman
“Quick, contact traffic control,” Cynthia urged.
Perez flipped a switch.
This might be more realistic phraseology but I think a Satphone call would have gone out instead to draw less attention. At this point the pilots would probably be redirected to field experts.
“Mayday Mayday Mayday, Cleveland Centre, LASS two niner seven eight heavy. Suspected explosive on board. Unable to land at Dulles,” Captain Perez said.
“LASS two niner seven eight heavy, Cleveland Centre. Roger. State your intentions”
I think there would be some conversation with a nearby military base providing guidance. The aircraft would likely be intercepted
“We can head for the Allegheny National Forest, it’s about twenty minutes flight time on heading 085,” Cynthia told Perez.
Don’t know what the paragraph below means
“LASS two niner seven eight heavy, Cleveland Centre. Do you have an aircraft handling situation?”
Again, nuclear threat would probably be handled by the military not by the pilots alone and definitely not ATC. They have no authority at this point
“Cleveland Centre, LASS two niner seven eight heavy. Negative. Device is nuclear. Request routing to Allegheny Forest area. We want to minimize civilian casualties,” Captain Perez suggested.
“LASS two niner seven eight heavy, Cleveland Centre. Roger. Stand by.”
“What the hell is going on?” Captain Perez asked Cynthia.
Perez flipped a switch.
This might be more realistic phraseology but I think a Satphone call would have gone out instead to draw less attention. At this point the pilots would probably be redirected to field experts.
“Mayday Mayday Mayday, Cleveland Centre, LASS two niner seven eight heavy. Suspected explosive on board. Unable to land at Dulles,” Captain Perez said.
“LASS two niner seven eight heavy, Cleveland Centre. Roger. State your intentions”
I think there would be some conversation with a nearby military base providing guidance. The aircraft would likely be intercepted
“We can head for the Allegheny National Forest, it’s about twenty minutes flight time on heading 085,” Cynthia told Perez.
Don’t know what the paragraph below means
“LASS two niner seven eight heavy, Cleveland Centre. Do you have an aircraft handling situation?”
Again, nuclear threat would probably be handled by the military not by the pilots alone and definitely not ATC. They have no authority at this point
“Cleveland Centre, LASS two niner seven eight heavy. Negative. Device is nuclear. Request routing to Allegheny Forest area. We want to minimize civilian casualties,” Captain Perez suggested.
“LASS two niner seven eight heavy, Cleveland Centre. Roger. Stand by.”
“What the hell is going on?” Captain Perez asked Cynthia.
Good luck
09-13-2019, 09:50 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2007
Position: Sr. VP of button pushing
Posts: 2,729
The guidance in the Aeronautical Information Manual has the crew start the transmission with either Pan-Pan Pan-Pan Pan-Pan or Mayday Mayday Mayday. You don't have to "declare a Pan Pan Pan." It's redundant. Then who you're calling, who you are and what your message is.
09-13-2019, 11:07 AM
#8
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 3,988
A few thoughts:
US pilots are unlikely to use Pan-Pan-Pan within the US and are far more likely to use Mayday or just go with the old standby “declaring an emergency”. Maybe both.
“Heavy” would not be used at cruise with center.
While the data points on actual rogue nuclear devices on a transport category aircraft are low, I’m going to speculate that NORAD’s first response might not be to scramble two poor souls in F-15s to go fly next to said bomb and watch it go off. Not really sure what good an interception would do for the scenario.
Getting it over something unimportant at as high an altitude as possible is probably going to be a way to minimize fallout and ground casualties. The only thing the F-15 pilots can do aside from joining the pilots on the doomed plane in death is to shoot it down. Whether that might have a chance at making the device go off low order or not at all is a pretty big risk when weighed against creating a ground burst in the northeastern US when it could have gone off above 40K without intervention by fighters.
US pilots are unlikely to use Pan-Pan-Pan within the US and are far more likely to use Mayday or just go with the old standby “declaring an emergency”. Maybe both.
“Heavy” would not be used at cruise with center.
While the data points on actual rogue nuclear devices on a transport category aircraft are low, I’m going to speculate that NORAD’s first response might not be to scramble two poor souls in F-15s to go fly next to said bomb and watch it go off. Not really sure what good an interception would do for the scenario.
Getting it over something unimportant at as high an altitude as possible is probably going to be a way to minimize fallout and ground casualties. The only thing the F-15 pilots can do aside from joining the pilots on the doomed plane in death is to shoot it down. Whether that might have a chance at making the device go off low order or not at all is a pretty big risk when weighed against creating a ground burst in the northeastern US when it could have gone off above 40K without intervention by fighters.
09-13-2019, 05:39 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 3,988
Originally Posted by HIFLYR
May Day is distress
Pan Pan sense of urgency
Pan Pan sense of urgency
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