UPS FE to FO
 

Hey what exactly happens once hired with UPS? Does everyone start out as a FE? If so, how long is upgrade to FO? Sorry, I don't know anything about the cargo side of the industry...

UPS is only hiring FOs...we have enough FEs

too many actually

All of the '88ers will start getting 5 weeks of vacation next year though. That's effectively 3 months off.

What's an '88er? Do you mean a FE on the Dc-8?
I am just curious how many FE's UPS has and how many of them are 60+? If there are any under 60 guys, is there anything the company can do to get them to upgrade?
Thanks.

I believe he is referring to those older fellas that were hired when the airline started in 1988. I believe that there will soon if not already, be no fe's under 60. This is due to the 72 going away and soon to be the 74 classic going away. And if there are any under 60 guys left on the panel, they will soon be displaced by more senior ropes(over 60 guys).

The "standard" vacation for years was 4 weeks after 10 years of service and 5 weeks after 15 years. Where the h*ll did the IPA come up with 19 years? What losers the NC was. This is what happens when you "buy" votes. (40K) for one year of service.

Not so Fast
 

4 weeks of vac after 12 years of service.

TH1

vacation
 

Nash..

What we got was an improvement over what we had...if you don't like it, please volunteer your services to the union to help right this egregious wrong. I, for one, don't think you'll want to get off your soapbox to help out one bit. It's easier to sit in the peanut gallery and b*tch and moan rather than doing anything constructive.

JMO

Pilot7576

That is a cop out. Sure it was an improvement, but was it of enough magnitude? I guess so for a group like ours. He's right, the company knew exactly where to put the improvements to get their 51%, and by the end our union leaders had their tails so far between their legs from their own problems they went with the 51% concept just to get something passed.

I volunteered for a seat on the negotiating committee and didn't get it due to EB politics. Does that mean that I can now ***** <G>?

Please tell me what the "improvement" was. A one year movement for one's 4th week? You my friend, have your head in the sand. The EC and NC where complete failures. Wake up. What I said is correct. The Standard for every major airline in the US was what I wrote. And we come up with 19 years? Is tony coleman coming up with these numbers? Sounds like it.

Take it easy Nash. You complain so much. Please leave UPS now and leave those who appreciate the job and guys with your seniority making 300K who enjoy their job alone. How much more do you want? What do you think you deserve, Capt. Nash?

Complain too much? You cant be serious. I'm just stating a Fact. I haven't posted a comment in long time. Complain too much? you gotta do better than that. Are you a manager? That answer you gave means you are, or you have a very low self worth. The FACTS are that the standard Vacation is 2 weeks until year 5, 3 weeks until year 10, 4 weeks until year 15, and 5 weeks from year 15 to 20.

Our wonderful EB comes up with 5 weeks after year 19. Why?
Just over complaining.

What? Just happy with what we got. Things could be a little better. But we work about 35% of the year and get a good bit of vacation.

vacation
 

Nash...

Every single section of the contract improved the last go around...you're just not pleased you didn't get everything you wanted. It's easy to cherry pick other contracts good points and ignore the duds. Vacation was an improvement over the last contract...IT GOT BETTER!!! Next go around, we can work on getting the 19 reduced to your standard. But this time around, we had to correct 6 yrs of 1.3% pay raises left us by the previous regime.

I think we got federal beat on this contract in a number of ways...pay being the most important. Other areas are close and they have an ad on scheduling but we made great gains. Spend your bonus (yeah, we got them beat there too!) doing something you or your family enjoys. Use a week of vacation and go someplace exotic. Either way, you need to step back and smell the roses and stop sniffing for the fertilizer instead.

The NC did a bang up job especially considering the support (or lack of it) from DL and FF. They almost single handedly destroyed unity in this place.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend off...

JMO

Pilot7576

"Every single section of the contract improved the last go around.."

Even the signing bonus vs 100% retro?

I don't see the signing bonus as an improvement over the retro I wish we had held out for.

I voted no.

Knowing what I know now.....I'd still vote no.

At the same time, though, I'm not all THAT unhappy it passed and am very glad it's behind us

By the way. I'm maxed out on Capts pay and I don't make close to 300K.

Then fly Z and you will.

Where did they get 5 after 19? The rest of UPS gets the fifth week in year 20, probably where it came from.

Very defensive here aren't we Pilot7576? Are you defending something YOU helped negotiate or is your job legacy preservation for JM and TN? How is it that a dysfunctional EB can achieve greatness? By the way, wasn’t it an awesome margin the contract was voted in by?

cashcow...

No, I didn't help negotiate this contract...no, I'm not best buds with JM and I have never met TN. TN made some huge leadership mistakes over the past few years and they hurt his credibility and that of the EB. The NC had its work cut out for them with all the infighting from the membership. Maybe it's just that I appreciate the hard work the GK and JM did for getting us what we got. This contract was going to be marginal vote from day one. There was not one unifying issue that we could reject the contract for and send it back for major work.

I listened to the naysayers who predicted furloughs from the scheduling article and how we would all be working harder under the new rules. Well, guess what? The furloughs never happened, they seem to be short pilots and the new rules are actually better. Talking to my buds at federal, they were surprised our contract didn't pass by a wide margin. But at the IPA, I wouldn't be surprised if we voted only 75%-25% that day actually follows night. We would have an entire group on the forum devoted to that subject.

I'm not sure who p*ssed in your wheaties, but this contract is far better than the last one. Is there room for improvement???...of course, but you will never get everything you want in negotiations. What would you have done differently? What was your plan to get everything we wanted? Inquiring minds want to know....

JMO

Pilot7576

"Inquiring minds want to know...."

So are you more than one person? Your writings seem to represent management's views, so is it safe to assume you probably are a Flight Qualified Supervisor? If you actually are an IPA member stating what you do, we as a group probably deserve what we got, and we might as well join the “spineless club”. Everything is relative. If you think the new contract had such great improvements you must have failed to read it, as did many of the yes voters before they voted. The number of people that now acknowledge having buyers’ remorse is astounding. In the end it all leads back to an IPA President whose leadership skills were very marginal, and this was probably the best he could have ever been able to achieve. One word sums it up, pitiful.

I wish I had a crystal ball to see what would be going on right now if the contract was voted down.

"I wouldn't be surprised if we voted only 75%-25% that day actually follows night"

I thought night followed day...

"what would be going on right now if the contract was voted down"

I think they would have thrown just a little more money at the Capts and offered full retro (that's what it would have taken for me).

It would have quickly passed and would have been a done deal in no time. I think they wanted it done bad enough that they wouldn't have drug it out as some were worried about. Throwing a little money at the problem would have been a lot easier than making Art 13 better to buy yes votes.

JMO. It's all a moot point now.