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Old 12-21-2019, 03:28 PM
  #21  
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I remember sitting in indoc. at a regional airline and watching a guy get pulled out of class and eventually fired for failing to disclose something on his application. In fact, this is a pretty common story. So while Conrad lied about his background, Atlas failed to do their due diligence. Good people are dead as a result.
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Old 12-21-2019, 03:38 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by TiredSoul View Post
‘Leaving for personal reasons’ means what?
It (often) means the company was trying to be nice by letting the person resign instead of firing them.

First resignation was from Commutair due to (the employee's own words) "lack of progress in training"; he then left Air Wisconsin for "personal reasons" during training; he then left TSA for "personal reasons" less than two weeks after failing his second line check.

He probably realized what his "mistake" was after his first resignation and worded the subsequent ones more carefully.
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Old 12-21-2019, 04:00 PM
  #23  
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. It (often) means the company was trying to be nice by letting the person resign instead of firing them.
Not being Nice, just less problems ahead..

Years ago, when I was working for a big airplane non-sced pax operation, the Senior Captain showed up for an all-nighter across the ocean, midnight departure: The Crew Schedule and MX desk smelled alcohol, called the Chief Pilot who happened to be in his office at the time. Captain got invited for a short and sweet interview with a blow-through alcohol tester and failed miserably.
Too drunk to drive home he got a taxi cab, shortly after he resigned his job.
(I flew numerous trips with the guy, excellent pilot and super nice, just
a bit thirsty. Probably better to have one of those in the wheel house than a sober incompetent idiot pushing -49 degrees in response to an un-commanded go-around )
IF you have the choice..
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Old 12-21-2019, 04:18 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Csy Mon View Post
Not being Nice, just less problems ahead..

Years ago, when I was working for a big airplane non-sced pax operation, the Senior Captain showed up for an all-nighter across the ocean, midnight departure: The Crew Schedule and MX desk smelled alcohol, called the Chief Pilot who happened to be in his office at the time. Captain got invited for a short and sweet interview with a blow-through alcohol tester and failed miserably.
Too drunk to drive home he got a taxi cab, shortly after he resigned his job.
(I flew numerous trips with the guy, excellent pilot and super nice, just
a bit thirsty. Probably better to have one of those in the wheel house than a sober incompetent idiot pushing -49 degrees in response to an un-commanded go-around )
IF you have the choice..
Or how about neither one of them??
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Old 12-21-2019, 04:42 PM
  #25  
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Just the nicknames given the two "incompetents" at Atlas unfortunately will be Exhibit A in their racial discrimination suits. Incompetence is a basis for termination. Being different is not. Unfortunately, when the Boys start mocking certain people because they are incompetent, identifying characteristics end up being used in the mocking nicknames, which then become evidence that the company may harbor a prejudice or subject them to a hostile workplace.

In other words, they are pointed out for incompetence, but the way the Boys point them out ends up as evidence of racial bias in the workplace. It will never happen, but better nicknames would be related to known errors they made, "Hey, there's the Gear Bender" or the "Tuna Can Crumpler," etc.

Otherwise, the people who are talking about them are doing exactly what they want them to do.

Aksa could talk very-intelligently in briefings and discussions, it seems from the report. His defects were only apparent when actually presented with an off-script moment in the airplane or simulator. Lots of people who would have spoken to him likely would have wondered whether he was being discriminated against. Only where instructors write stuff down and make reports and records of failures, and/or where the airline videos the guy screwing up in the sim, can spurious charges of discrimination be rebutted. The Company absolutely has to be willing to fire the deeply-incompetents, regardless of the consequences.
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Old 12-21-2019, 05:28 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by DC8DRIVER View Post
Or how about neither one of them??
Yes of course..
But if you had the choice a dark and stormy night..?
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Old 12-21-2019, 05:29 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by wjcandee View Post
Just the nicknames given the two "incompetents" at Atlas unfortunately will be Exhibit A in their racial discrimination suits. Incompetence is a basis for termination. Being different is not. Unfortunately, when the Boys start mocking certain people because they are incompetent, identifying characteristics end up being used in the mocking nicknames, which then become evidence that the company may harbor a prejudice or subject them to a hostile workplace.

In other words, they are pointed out for incompetence, but the way the Boys point them out ends up as evidence of racial bias in the workplace. It will never happen, but better nicknames would be related to known errors they made, "Hey, there's the Gear Bender" or the "Tuna Can Crumpler," etc.

Otherwise, the people who are talking about them are doing exactly what they want them to do.

Aksa could talk very-intelligently in briefings and discussions, it seems from the report. His defects were only apparent when actually presented with an off-script moment in the airplane or simulator. Lots of people who would have spoken to him likely would have wondered whether he was being discriminated against. Only where instructors write stuff down and make reports and records of failures, and/or where the airline videos the guy screwing up in the sim, can spurious charges of discrimination be rebutted. The Company absolutely has to be willing to fire the deeply-incompetents, regardless of the consequences.
Well spoken, well said..
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Old 12-21-2019, 07:59 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by DC8DRIVER View Post
Or how about neither one of them??
Funny stance you have considering our convicted felon EXCO Chair/ leader forevermore. Don't bite the hand feeding you. You might end up on the street without a paycheck. You should consult him before posting on things like this in our glass house.

Purely by luck, we collectively didn't have 91 more bodies added to the aviation account of deaths.

Last edited by scrupulous; 12-21-2019 at 08:18 PM.
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Old 12-22-2019, 07:31 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by scrupulous View Post
Funny stance you have considering our convicted felon EXCO Chair/ leader forevermore. Don't bite the hand feeding you. You might end up on the street without a paycheck. You should consult him before posting on things like this in our glass house.

Purely by luck, we collectively didn't have 91 more bodies added to the aviation account of deaths.
Jeez dude. Way to bring up a 30 year old conviction that is totally irrelevant to any discussion. 👎👎
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Old 12-22-2019, 09:04 PM
  #30  
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With that logic, we shouldn't be able to learn anything from history. That thirty year old tidbit covers the subject at hand, consequence, behavior and corruption to today.

When is the cut off time for learning from history? Seems like we repeat it frequently, so I'm guessing it's pretty short when applied to our ilk.
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