PolarTiger

should have got rid of Teamsters looong ago. Look at Kalitta today...

DC8DRIVER

Don't you mean "Our retired union Chairman" ???

Because if you don't, that would imply that you aren't a union member.

Just curious, which is it: Are you one of us or one of them?

WhipWhitaker

This line of thinking is the problem, and exactly what turns people away from the current leadership. Anything other than blind allegiance = management stooge.

RyeMex

Jesus. “One of us or one of them”? Really? There’s no room for dissenting opinions without being accused of being an enemy? No wonder we have such a unified pilot group outside of the cesspool that is “giant comms”.

nitefr8dog

Switching to ALPA had nothing to do with K4's current contract......it had everything to do with CK wanting to get more business and paying his pilots more to get there. That also took forever. The K4 guys ate a s&!t sandwich for years pay wise that most would not have accepted to get there.

Elevation

I was thinking about this. Seems our union leadership is in some kind of self-destructive spiral. They want loyalty, but they try to get it by badgering folks and withholding information. This severely hinders the ability of key committees to function. That raises more questions about their leadership than it answers, so people speak up. The process starts again as well-meaning but poorly guided stewards and communications committee folk try to act as political enforcers. Each time we do this we lose the support of more and more pilots. Un-checked this is going to lead to a complete breakdown.

The thing for us to do is to snap them out of this. It's not in our interest to have more leadership upheaval now. So whether you like or hate these guys (I still like then, despite some stupid moves to "fire" me for asking about safety proposals.), we need to drive our leaders into a recovery.

So here's what I propose:
Fess up-
-Publicly acknowledge our current problems with internal communications and priorities. Our pilots aren't stupid. They see through omissions and any kind of sugar-coating. People love a Xxxxx. People hate a liar.

Shape up-
-Get as many pilots involved in fixing things as possible. Ask for help. A common effort unifies pilots. Get every thirty-something aviator who has an idea into some sort of effort. Once a critical mass of pilots have some sweat equity in the union, you'll have their support.

Restrain your Dogs-
-Every time we make a jab at a dues-paying union member, put out an insulting meme, etc. we get a few lines of loud applause and silently lose the support of many more pilots. We volunteered for our offices. You ran for election. It's our implicit duty . It is absolutely not acceptable for us to give any kind of xxxxx to our members. We lose when we do that.

Finally, our leadership is doing some good stuff. The Exco round-tables are a good move. Changes in the way the union FB page has been handled are good. There are plenty of good ideas and good impulses in the leadership above me. If I wind up burning my own position down to get the people above me to act on their better impulses and deliver a better result, well, light me up. Our leadership is human with human failures. I'm still confident in them, and I still think we can set a better course.

WhipWhitaker

Elevation, I’d throw a vote your way. More class and reason in this post than I’ve ever seen on GC, or in a teamsters publication.

RyeMex

Elevation 2020

DC8DRIVER

Except the problem is that Elevation will not run for office. Neither will anyone else that regularly posts anti-union messages here in this public forum.

Bad mouthing the union, the EXCO, and the Negotiating committee in public will do nothing except erode unity and moral, and bolster the company's confidence that our pilot group is fractured.

If the incessant anti-union posters on APC would work from within the union or run for office and win, then I would respect their movement. I might not agree with them (and then again, I might) but I would respect them for having the intelligence to know how to affect a change without helping the company. But peeing from the bridge onto the pilot group in a public forum accomplishes NOTHING. Since many of the posts are generated by a very few vocal antagonists, it appears that the anti union crowd is larger that it really is. It's not larger: it is simply louder.

Our union is a democracy and the majority of the members have voted for the pilots who represents us. If the minority does not like the way the union is running things, then run for office and change things yourself. Sitting on the sidelines and throwing rocks only fosters the destruction of the unity that the majority want and need and it significantly bolsters the company's negotiating position because they not only read these posts, they USE THESE POSTS AGAINST US. Look no further that JC's testimony in the law suit Atlas brought against the union. He directly quoted posts from APC as evidence against us.

As for transparency and communications, I have been a member of three different unions for over 30 years and I can say with authority that this union and specifically this EXCO are by far the most transparent and communicative of any union and any union management that I have ever seen or heard of. Ever.

Just this year (2020) I have had over 20 emails from our union. In the past 12 months I have had over 120 emails from them. They have had 7 EXCO webinars/round table sessions, Over 20 Chairman's updates, 10 Negotiation Updates, two membership votes, two surveys, and numerous updates from the HIMS, hotel, safety, training and scheduling committees. All in just the past 12 months. NO other unions have had anywhere close to this level of communication.

One of the regular anit-union posters here whined and complained that the Teamsters didn't create our own local as promised during the campaign. Then when the union did establish our new local 2750, he complained that the union had gone rogue and left 1224. This isn't simply a case of "Damned if you do - Damned if you don't" ; It is a case of trash the union no matter what because you are just bitter and have nothing constructive to contribute aside from a toxic hatred of the EXCO and the Teamsters.

If pilots have a legitimate gripe then there are many conduits through which you can make your voice heard. The phone numbers of every union officer and committee member are posted for all members to see and use if you have a specific problem. Or if you want to group up and air your complaints in person with other members, then have at it. It is possible that there are better ideas, better tactics, better leaders out there. If there are, then bring them to the appropriate committee or have a run for office yourself. Or message the membership privately if you don't like to pontificate in public. Or conduct meetings and get togethers at the hub or on layovers. Change isn't necessarily a bad thing.

But pooping on our union in public is a bad thing. And it will never create the change you want.

So, yes. In private, do what you want.

But in public you are either with us or you are against us.

So which is it?

DC8DRIVER

Sooo... don't "jab" at dues paying members but stab the committee members, EXCO, and negotiating members in the back all in the name of unity.

My posts here call out anonymous posters who single out specific union volunteers and leaders.

Calling out anonymous writers in public by their "handles" does not affect their privacy or defame them personally.

However, identifying union committees, EXCO members, and the Negotiating committee members in public not only personally attacks them, but it publicly damages us. Our union.

I'm just saying that all this bickering should be private.

Public arguments accomplish nothing.

And, I have NEVER myself nor have I EVER seen anyone else personally attack by name a fellow union member with insulting memes or outright insults either on the web boards or in person. I would not and do not support that at all.

I do feel, however, that the constant attacks on the union are personal and incredibly damaging.