WhipWhitaker

this x2. How do people not see this?

SilentLurker

Hi all,

I have some questions for the purpose of gaining understanding. During recent earnings call, company wants merged list & economic impact report from union. Atlas Air exec said they “require” a merged list per contract. That it is a requirement to avoid 9months delay.

1. Wondering what Pilots group in general is being told during flight deck discussions as to why no merged seniority list yet? I’m curious to hear opinions both official & non official as well.

Company said 9 month countdown can begin once list is supplied. (Although it will not take that long since progress already started in other sections of the contract). They said No list tendered to company can defiantly delay the process for a contract up to 9 months after date it is given.

2. Is union waiting for unfavorable courts and legal environment to decide on merged seniority list btw Southern & Atlas?

3. Is, or will any delay currently happening be worth it? Worth the risks vs reward. Worth the wait?

4. Is the delay based on principle, rumors, or facts? If principles, what principles? If facts, what facts? If rumors, what rumors?

Thank you for your time responding seriously.

Hawkrider

The reason you know mgmt is full of **** is that they claim to "require" a complete economic proposal from the union as well as the ISL. Can someone tell me where it's written that those things are required to negotiate a market rate contract so as to avoid destroying the company you are supposed to be managing?

Once an ISL is tendered, a 9 month clock of negotiations towards and arbitrated/amalgamated contract begins. This is not Sec 6 like all other airline pilots get to negotiate under. Once the 9 months of negotiations are over, all unagreed to sections go to an arbitrator. Surely you can see what's happening here already....but wait there's more! Now the company and union have to meet and agree on an arbitrator to hear the case. Then once that's done, the Company/Union must present their case to the arbitrator. Then the wonderful and very fair arbitrator get to decide how to hose the pilots and their families and has generally no deadline with which he/she has to render their decision. 9 months? IIRC last time when it was Polar/Atlas doing this, it was over 2 years from the start of it all. Of course the pilots/union can have a new contract next week if they would just agree to Atlas mgmt's "reasonable" demands of a few extra dollars to "keep the Indians on the reservation".

Then the best part is that when this ****ty CBA that you get shoved on you by the arbitrator becomes amendable, Atlas scumbag mgmt will go out and buy another airline with 100 pilots and a bankruptcy contract and do this whole thing again.

kodiakallstar

This seems like a troll job but ok I’ll explain.
what the company is saying without saying is once you give us that list you forfeit your ability to vote on this contract any leverage you had bc we can’t staff things.

the cba has a merger provision in it that makes everything unresolved go to arbitration after 9 months. Thing is no arbitrator is going to sit down and write a contract for atlas as long as progress is being made. they’ll send the two parties away to go figure it out amongst themselves.

after say two years of this atlas will maybe have something similar to what Kalitta has. Better but nowhere near what it needs to be. No real retirement no soft pay super weak language etc.

the good news for the pilots is a better contract is on the horizon it’s just anywhere but atlas. If you still want to come go ahead. You are enabling this bullying to continue no doubt, but I won’t hate you for trying to better you life or your resume just don’t say you weren’t warned.

JackStraw

At some point we have to accept our loss and get a cba.

zerozero

If the company gets the contract they want, they still won't be able to serve the customers the way they deserve to be served.

Fighting the company is literally an attempt at saving the company from itself. It's like trying to negotiate with a suicide bomber. If they get their way, it all gets blown up.

So, sure, go ahead and press the trigger for them.

kodiakallstar

if that’s what the membership wants that’s what will happen but I don’t think the vast majority agree with you. As far as the Exco is concerned they were elected to get us an industry leading contract and one we could vote on. They took polls of what we wanted they have calls monthly etc. they are following the mandate the majority has given them.

Elevation

Both sides are painted into a corner, and accepting our loss will be very costly in the long term. It still pays to fight.

121guy

Agreed. While I may not have agreed with the initial decision to go down this road since we are here we might as well go for broke.

JackStraw

We’ll see in November.