Draft *****?/Make-up *****?
 

It used to be that you gave your buddies a hard time for being a draft *****. Now, you have to give your buddies a hard time for being a make-up *****. What is it about the new FedEx contract that entices so many guys to do make-up instead of draft/volunteer? It seems like our negotiating committee may have been hoodwinked in ways we never could have imagined.

There's no accounting for personal taste, and as you know, we've got over 4,000 personal tastes to contend with at any moment. I certainly don't/can't understand why anyone would fly a make-up trip instead of a draft or volunteer trip, but that's just me. Before I made captain I never flew a make-up trip, either for regular make-up, make-up vacation, make-up sick, or any other type of make-up. However,when I upgraded to captain, I had over 200 hours in my make-up bank, which I did manage to use up. It's a good thing to have some bank hours, so that if something you really would like to fly comes available, and you have the time to fly it, you can pick it up from open time, without restriction. Of course you need to realize that you're flying for straight time, but in the vast majority of cases, you'd probably not get that trip in a draft or volunteer mode, unless of course you're in real tight with the crew schedulers, but that's a different issue. However, earning the hours at a lower seat rate, but flying them at a higher seat rate is very nice. So if you're going to upgrade or transition soon, it would be prudent to have some make-up time in your bank.

It would be fun to hear what were the best draft trips ever assigned. I've heard some crazy numbers, for almost no work.

Well maybe in the electric jets there is draft or volunteer, but in the whistling $hithouse there isn't even open time available. If you want to make more money it's either makeup/carryover or get a part-time job.

Of course for Memphites the rules are always different, so your mileage may vary.

No so! There's always draft or volunteer available, it's just that guys like you and me never hear of it, because it happens too fast, to a select few, who know the secret handshake or something.

With over 1100 hours in my makeup bank, you can call me any name you want. I'm not going to ask permission to make up some of that time.

The fact is there isn't much/any d/v on the 727, and if I want to work (outside of negotiations) I'm going to try.

Negotiations? A different story. FWIW...I think the company fattened up the seats over the last 2 years just to try to prevent such leverage from having an effect. That is why our BASE RATE pay is so important--there will be a lot less 150% in the future.

And...just a suggestion...I don't think you want to lecture any FOs right now on much of anything. They already feel sold down the river. They are going to do whatever they can to "offset" their delayed upgrades. Asking anyone to "play the game" right now and only do D/V is probably futile.

I understand how the f/o's feel ... I feel the same way. It almost makes me want to go out and volunteer for disputed pairings (likely the only volunteer I could get on the MD-11) just to make up for ALPA screwing me on the age 60 deal (and the associated pay/scheduling/bidding hit that even I will take with age 65).



Mark

If you felt I was lecturing anyone, you missed my point, because I wasn't. I was only offering a way to parley stored hours into more cash than those hours were initially worth. Both for s/o's going to the f/o seat, as well as f/o's going to the captains seat. Also, I wasn't suggesting that guys not fly make-up, only that I didn't understand why someone would fly m/u instead of dft/vlt (which was the question that was posed in Beaverdam's initial post.) If guys don't care for my comments, because they feel that I sold them down the river, I'm sorry, but as I've said before, I'm a bystander in this whole affair.

As for your 1100 hours of make up bank, I wouldn't expect anyone to give you grief for using them. After all, it was hours that you didn't get paid for in past, and now it offers you greater flexibility than you had before. Bank hours sort of gives one a boost in seniority, because you have the ability to pick up trips that meet your wants and needs, that you might not have been able to fly due to your seniority. That's always a good thing.

I think part of the issue of whether to fly drf/vol or m/u is if you are a commuter or not. If you live in Memphis, drf and vol are easy, you're an hour from where most trips start. If you're a commuter, scheds is not going to call you for a draft that shows in 2 hours if you are at your home. Vol trips go the same way. As a commuter you can't put in for general volunteer. You have to have at least some notice time in order to get to Memphis (front in dh trips usually being an exception). Commuting from DEN in my case, I can't even guarantee that I'll have a j/s to get to MEM. So that limits what you can get on vol too. Trip specific make up on the other hand is a sure thing. You know exactly what trip it is and can plan your commute.

The only time I put in for volunteer is when I have a one day gap in the schedule and I'm stuck in Memphis anyway. Don't do any m/u either unless I had to drop a trip in the first place and just trying to keep my pay correct.

We have met the enemy.....
 

These sentiments, honest and understandable, are far from unique. It's exactly why so many pilots who lost their pensions are pushing for "age 65". It's why former "B-scalers" didn't flinch at agreeing to the pension-dumps. It's why those who came up losers on a merged seniority list don't mind steamrollering another group in the next merger.

"I WAS ROBBED, AND I'M GOING TO GET IT BACK, (even if I have to take it from somebody who wasn't the robber)."

No fingers being pointed here---we're all that way, including me.
Management loves this, since it allows them to "jack down the house, one corner at a time".

Working trips for straight pay to make up for trips I DROPPED during various negotiation periods and periods of NOT HIRING are NOT the same as being for age 65.

I ain't "taking" away anything--just giving the Memphis reserve boys a chance to chase their wives around the house unmolested.

And I don't pick up DPs. Ever.

I was wondering what the idea of this thread was myself. As a commuter, I find it easier, though riskier, to drop trips and make them up later, as opposed to doing trip trades. I'll do whatever it takes to improve my quality of life, except take DP's, of course. I can't do VLT because I don't live in Memphis, and if I'm scheduled to be in Memphis for a day, I'll drop the following trip and pickup another that makes my commute easier. So, is that wrong? I get to spend more days at home and make the same amount of money. It seems like a no brainer, but I've been accused of being one! (no-brainer, that is...) ;)

In all honesty, does anybody really think that as a collective group we shouldn't have the right to pick up trips in open time as make-up without wearing some kind of disloyalty scarlet letter? There is absolutely no way we could get even a small minority of guys to sit on their hands and hope to get the exact trip they want out of open time as a draft trip instead of grabbing it out of open time. Please tell me nobody is advocating the position that picking up trips in open time as make-up is analagous to picking up a DP or in some way hurting any other pilot on the property. You're smoking your underwear if you tell me I shouldn't be able to pick up a trip in open time with a clear conscience.

As much as I may disagree with you v. "Age 60", this time you've got it exactly right. As long as there is no job action in progress, there's nothing at all wrong with it (exception: the DPs you mentioned). Hell, I've still got hours in my MUB from when I was a 727 FO. Besides, if I chase my wife around too long, unmolested, She's buggin' the ******* outta' me to take a trip!

HEY!! Wake up and smell my boxers!!! Of course, I'm advocating that you shouldn't pick up open time.

It hurts me!! And everyone else that is trying to pick up those trips. Actually, I mostly just try to trade with open time. But, just the same. If you pick them up...I can't have them.

So, yah. I think its stupid for anyone to pick up A300/capt trips.

Any other seat or plane...Have at it.

Busboy...there's sumpin just ain't right about you!

You're correct, in that nobody is giving you a hard time about picking up trips from open time, regardless of the status you pick them up in, unless, of course they are disputed pairings. Your conscience should be clear. Relax and have a good weekend.

Hmmm...., too many "earlier date time stamps", I think.;)

JJ...thanx and have yourself a great weekend too. Why didn't I know BEFORE I picked up an airport stand-by in open time that I couldn't drop it later??!!

You need to ask Tony that. Can we assume you're stationed at one of the 4 terminals (in Mecca-Red-Necka) that has a chair? Just remember this lesson for next year, and have some popcorn for the rest of us. Might as well make the best you can out of a bad situation.

Guilty as charged your honor

You said it hurts you that people are picking up OT trips?
 

Hey, yea...!!! All you MEM MD-11 F/O's out there, don't pick up anything out of open time. That way I'll have first choice of all the trips that I can adjust my schedule. Thanks guys. You're great.
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yea right...

I've got 400+ hrs in my m/u bank, and use open time as a schedule adjustment tool when I'm out of sick leave - which is most of the time due to my kids bringing home bugs from school.

As a commuter, there's now way I could rely on draft/volunteer for anything other than giving myself a MEM hotel standby over Chirstmas, and hoping they'll call. Ain't gonna happen.

Everyone should fly as much open time make up as they want to - so it hurts more when we decide that we need more family time.

Make up is just that, make up. You dropped a trip for whatever reason and now are making it up to get back that part of your compensation. Anyone who has a problem with you doing that is an idiot. You are not doing anything extra you are simply getting what you were entitled for.