I love when people argue against this TA as if we just jumped at the company's first offer and we havent been in negotiations for SIX YEARS. This is the result of years and years of negotiations and having a weak sister airline albatross around our neck. If ABX votes this contract down, the airline is finished and ATI will vote in a "we hope they dont do it to us too" concessionary contract. Everyone will lose

I don’t know about all the details, but that pay-rate looked nice!

We gave up/adjusted some things and we gained a few things. There were compromises to this contract sure. Changes to language too in some areas that needed it. Loosening the rules on REA...there were already so many loopholes. JRM...When we lifted the DOF ban, JRM almost disappeared. You got your wish! You were Tired of JRM and this will hopefully help that. We gained in retirement, but it was laughable what the company was willing to give. They don’t want to see guys stay here. Soaper said it himself! They could have done more, but it wasn’t concessionary.

This wasn’t a contract that deserved a definite No vote. There are benefits I believe to putting this in affect where we will be tomorrow. It doesn’t pass like Woog said, we’ll sit in purgatory and watch everyone do something while we sit on the sidelines. And then shut us down. Not because of total cost, but because we don’t offer the flexibility that our competition has.

They want costs that align with ATI. We found a compromise and its going to vote. Don’t you get tired of seeing ABX start cities, set the benchmark for performance and they take it away. They do it for costs. Could you imagine the performance increase if we had half the stuff a major got. ATSG = Cheap. I’m talking 2 engine DC8 kinda of things.


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This is like a battered wife syndrome. He beats me! But maybe if I give him a bj for Christmas, he won’t beat me anymore. Maybe, if he really likes it, I’ll get a shiny present.

is it better to die standing up, or live on your knees?

I am tired of working for the ever shrinking airline. But this contract does nothing to guarantee we don’t keep shrinking.

Maybe dying standing up is moving on with our lives and continuing to make things better in time. And living on our knees is like having our heads in the guillotine.


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And your plan to inprove our options? Hold your breath and stomp your feet. You are retiring and have a Mil retirement...this contract means nothing to you. You could start by joining the negotiations and pass your vast Union help and experience on to the group so they could have an ahh haw moment. The high water mark was set when a sister company settled for a less what was available at the time contract. That is not the case now....with plenty of qualified pilots out of work...that ship has sailed. So besides saying no and having yet another tantrum or not flying a perfectly good airplanes because of no sids/stars when we are approved to.( I can show you how )..what's the fix? Anyway it's going to pass north of 90%.

No contact does that....this an expensive way to shut ABX down when all they would have to do is lease the aircraft to someone else. Amerijet is flying 4 of the former Atlas 200's that used to be on ABX certificate. You can always retire like you have been saying you were going to do if it's to painful.

I am not sure who you think I am?

Results tomorrow. I’m pretty sure it’ll pass because of people like you.

It’ll be a sad day if K4 get 12% 401K, and we fold like ATI and accept this.

Not sure of who either of you are...not that it matters though.

My guess, the TA will pass around 80%ish...with only 85% of eligible voters actually turning in a ballot. All a guesstimate based on gut.

K4...who knows, I expect they will be inline with ATI/ABX cost structure in an overall fashion. Wouldn't surprise me to see the possibility of slightly higher, but I don't expect leaps and bounds (that's wishful thinking...for all our sakes)

Why does every pilot group blame each other for their contract? Why can’t you just vote for what you believe your own value to be? Do you think United blames Delta? Or does AA thank Delta? No.

ABX and ATI combined makes less than 20% of the total ACMI flying out there. That’s like saying a local restaurant in town is setting the prices for McDonalds. It just doesn’t happen that way.

Stop blaming others when you have the ability to vote yourself. If you like it, vote yes. If you feel you’re worth more, vote no.