pangolin

That is the dictionary definition of ..... Whipsaw.

Frank717

Sorry. I thought Atlas has a much deeper share of the Amazon flying. I’ve got friends with the ATSG group, and I know they are now at 90% Amazon for ATI alone (loss of Military flying due to Covid). As for ABX, they have a scope for DHL, but it seems like they keep pulling DHL birds and putting them in paint shops for Amazon.

So, even if Atlas is a major supplier for DHL, and there are a lot of small guys trying to get their hand into the pie, there is still a lot of advantages for us. Historically, those smaller guys (we used to call them Cargo Alley in Miami) who pop up overnight; 21 Air, SkyLease Cargo, Western Global... all here less than 10 years (kinda Mesa too). These guys come and go, quickly and all the time. If 21 Air loses their contract or downs a plane for 1 month, then it’s likely they won’t be around in a year.
DHL knows that, they just use guys like them to drive the price down. And yes, they can get away with it in the short term. But, when things turn, if Amazon starts point-to-point cargo (like UPS, FEDEX) when pilot demand returns and guys leave for those smaller ACMI to large ones or LCCs, then the ball is back in our court. I know now, it’s not.
Cujo and and worked for another carrier 13 years ago. We both worked on a contract the union and company told us to put it. The pilot group blanched at it, so (without a vote) they took it back, added 3.2 Million as a signing bonus then it passes, 52%. There is always more money.

Seneca Pilot

A few points:

No one at Mesa flying a 737 is working for 43.00 per hour. I hear from a friend there that those jobs went very senior and the rates are equal to Sun Country. Furthermore their entry into cargo I believe has been planned for a long time and Mesa is not a "new kid on the block" but a well run company that has been one of the very few passenger airlines in the world to make a profit for 2020.

It's not if Amazon does point to point, it's when. They are already doing outside freight on their trucks and brokering freight as well. They will have the capacity with their local delivery network and have already stated that they will do outside freight to offset costs and improve profitability even if the freight isn't profitable on its own.

Any carrier that gives too much business to Amazon, to the point that it is enough to hurt if lost, will pay in the future. Just as most businesses learned to keep Wal Mart at a manageable size of the business portfolio lest they come in and start commanding price concessions or take their business away and collapse it, contractors must do the same with Amazon.

Kalitta can not be negotiated with in the same way as Fedex and UPS. Those are not carriers that primarily compete for commodity freight. They carry their own proprietary product for the most part and have much higher profit margins due to the complete network with trucking, stores, and overnight. Kalitta is in the commodity business and while there will always be 30% of their freight that will be placed there due to service levels and history, the other 70% is competed for on price. Connie is in the position of ****** Y**. He could simply sell it all and go off into the sunset. That is a powerful negotiating position. I think he is very honorable and does right by his employees or he wouldn't have so many there for so long, however I don't think he will give up the farm either. This boom will end, freight will return to airline bellies, and the business will return to normal. It isn't fair to ask for a long term contract based on short term windfalls.

Reactivity

That's the sort of attitude that gets you into trouble. I know a union that did that once, not too long ago. If they didn't kill the goose that laid the golden egg, they at least wounded it severely and left themselves in a really bad position.

Reactivity

The "ABX-DHL scope" is a persistent myth.

ABX has had, and continues to have, six 767-200s for Amazon. They're painted white, sometimes with an ABX logo. One is currently painted in an Airborne Express "retro" paint scheme. ABX hasn't pulled anything from DHL to paint for Amazon. All ATSG/Amazon-related growth since early 2017 has been directed to ATI, who consider themselves Amazon's "representative" carrier. And they have the bag tags to show for it.

nitefr8dog

Exactly! I should have said they (DHL) will not give up their ability to Whipsaw.

nitefr8dog

Not a myth....but has expired. It originally prevented the sister airlines owned by ATSG from flying DHL freight in NA in 767 aircraft. And ATSG honored it.

UltraRun

Best guess is it’s structured differently. There is no way an organization this size doesn’t have an Inc. as an umbrella over all those LLCs. That Inc. would most likely be Connie Kalitta Holdings, Inc.

PRESIDENT CONRAD A KALITTA
TREASURER CONRAD A KALITTA
SECRETARY GEORGE W. KELSEY
DIRECTOR CONRAD A KALITTA
DIRECTOR DOUGLAS K KALITTA
DIRECTOR GEORGE W. KELSEY
DIRECTOR D. C. SANDERLIN

WhaleWrangler

This will be my last contract before I can sit back and relax. I would have hoped for much better especially tighter language on Scheduling and keeping them out of our pay checks and certainly improvements to QOL, of which there are none. The pay increase doesn't even cover inflation, the DC for even the top tier guys isn't that great. Throw in medical increases which saddles the flight crew with picking up a huge bulk of the companies medical expense.

The pay comparisons put out by the union include the Per Diem to make the overall package look somewhat reasonable. Just work it out on 64 hours and pay rate with DC less medical increase and inflation to see it's real worth(less). I am more than happy to stick with current book and maybe see a realistic improvement down the road if it's voted down for my last few years.

Ghost Pilot

That's a big maybe you're playing with there. Frankly this idea that a post Covid pilot market is going to force the company to capitulate to greater contract demands is pure fantasy. They can and there's no reason to expect they won't draw this thing out for years just as prior to 2016. Unless another ACMI carrier leap frogs us with a new contract there's little reason why they will return to the negotiating table. At best we might get some trades (ie 15% DC for home basing) but more likely they will wash their hands and move on.