Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Cargo > Atlas/Polar
"Atlas / Polar" Pilots - Advice Requested >

"Atlas / Polar" Pilots - Advice Requested

Notices

"Atlas / Polar" Pilots - Advice Requested

Old 10-22-2005, 01:08 PM
  #1  
Captain Monkey Suit
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Question "Atlas / Polar" Pilots - Advice Requested

I am in the pool to come to Atlas / Polar and am very interested in the prospect. If you work for AAWH, it would be helpful getting some answers to the following questions so that I can make a more educated decision based on the pros and cons...

On the plus side, my current job is corporate / charters for a very stable company, flying a small, private jet as a Captain for high $80k's / year (I don't expect much more than a 2% raise / year), a "week on - week off" work schedule, 3 weeks of vacation / year, and a 401k with a 50% company match. On the other hand, this job is like a commuter…lots of takeoffs and landings with short legs, long work days, and short rest periods are the norm (14 /10), loading baggage (bad on the back), re-stocking the aircraft / passenger items, cleaning the aircraft / toilet, and Flight Attendant duties (in addition to your standard pilot duties). Not exactly glamorous, but it pays the bills and probably better than a lot of jobs out there.

Now…on to the MANY questions that I have for you Atlas / Polar pilots. Any answers would be a BIG help in my decision. Thanks in advance...

1) PAY: I have no debt, dependents, and love to travel but the training pay is a tough pill to swallow. Does the company pay for the hotel during training? Is the training about 4 months at $1200/month? Is training pay done at the start or end of IOE? My understanding is that your first year of flying online will provide a monthly guarantee of 50 hours. At Polar that works out to a monthly salary of $3100 and at Atlas that is a monthly salary of $3750. Can I count on overtime? When you upgrade to Captain, do you start at year 1, or do you get paid for the number of years at Atlas / Polar? For example, if you upgrade from F/O at year 5, do you get year 5 Captain's pay, or do you start at year 1 pay?

2) OUTLOOK: I understand that the Atlas contract expires in 2006, when are negotiations to begin? What are some of the issues or expectations that Atlas pilots are wanting to resolve? When do you expect the merging of the pilot groups, if at all? What can I expect for long-term job security? If furloughed, how easy is it to find another job with the wide-body & international experience? I have been told by other cargo pilots that cargo charters aren't very stable. Is this true?

3) QAULITY OF LIFE: I have heard that Polar provides a better quality of life with the schedules, than does Atlas with the ACMI's. Could someone please elaborate on the differences in the quality of life between Scheduled flying vs. ACMI's. I expect long duty days, but do you get minimum international rest frequently, or do you get more time to see a bit of the city and local sights? A lot of back-side-of-the-clock flying? Do you get plenty of rest on the road? What about relief crews on long flights? Are all the international customs documents / paperwork completed by the company or the pilots?

4) DOMICILES: At Atlas, I expect to commute to STN for about 6 months to a year, then I should be able to hold a US domicile. At Polar you start at JFK. At the interview, STN was explained well, but the US commute and domiciles is where I am a bit fuzzy. What can you explain about the quality of life for commuting to US domiciles?

5) SCHEDULE: I understand that the work schedule is 17 work days a month (extendable to 21 days). What should I expect at Polar or Atlas (US domicile based schedules) in terms of a schedule? You don't work 17 - 21 days straight, do you? Is there enough consecutive time off to have a reasonably normal personal life?

6) TAXES: Anyone familiar with living abroad vs. taxes? I understand that if you reside outside of the US for more than 320 days / year, you can avoid taxes in the US (Ex-Patriot Act?). What about living in Europe? Any suggestions on web sites or good locations in Europe? I hear that Isle of Man is tax free.

7) PILOT - COMPANY RELATIONS: Do you like your job? Are the relations with the company on a professional basis and team oriented (notwithstanding that Polar had to go on strike in relation to contract negotiations)? Does Polar have their new ratified contract posted online for us to review?

Last edited by Captain Monkey Suit; 10-22-2005 at 02:14 PM.
 
Old 10-22-2005, 05:59 PM
  #2  
Line Holder
 
airfish's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Position: Looking over your shoulder
Posts: 28
Red face In The Pool Too....

According to the HR people at AAWH there are a total of 23 in ther hiring pool. I am just wondering what the in-shop people are saying.

I personally don't care if my class is in Dec or Aug, I would just like to know an idea. I know what I signed up for, I think.

How hard is the commute to STN? I live in MEM and FedEx has nonstops 6 days a week.

Let me know what I can do to.

Last edited by airfish; 10-29-2005 at 09:50 PM.
airfish is offline  
Old 10-25-2005, 06:52 PM
  #3  
On Reserve
 
PolarBear's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: CA 747-400
Posts: 11
Default

Captain Monkey Suit,

I'll try to answer you questions from a "POLAROID" perspective.

(1a) Training pay at Polar is $1,400/mo from date of hire through completion of IOE, or for two (2) months, whichever occurs first. From our contract, "Two (2) months following his DOH, the new hire shall be paid the minimum monthly guarantee (65 hrs at 62.49/hr), irrespective of whether or not he has completed IOE." This means two months at $1400/mo maximum. If Polar takes 4 months to get you thru IOE, you start getting minimum of $4061.85 a month after 60 days from DOH.

(1b) Polar min guarantee is 65 hrs/mo starting 60 days after DOH. After 60 days from DOH, Polar pilot's pay for the month is based on the HIGHER of (a) 65 hrs guarantee, (b) actual fly/deadhead hrs, or (c) trip rig which is 4.28 hrs/day. Do the math. Very few Polar pilots are paid 65 hrs for the month. A 16 day line with no flying pays 68.48 hrs (trip rig).

(1c) Upgrade to Captain. DOH and seniority rule all. If, after 5 years as a Polar F/O, you upgrade to Captain, your monthly pay will be 5 year Captain pay, not 1year pay like at some other airlines. You slide across to the Captain's list based upon your DOH/seniority number. You do not go to the bottom of list. Captain pay will start next day after completion of Captain IOE.

(1d) Open time is available if you want. Any flying you do on "days off" is added to the greater of the 3 pay hours in (1b) above. Example, you have an awarded 14 day line that you accrue only 20 hrs flying/DH time. If you do nothing else for the remainder 16/17 days of the month, your pay is 65 hrs. If you work 3 extra days (ie, 15th, 16th, 17th), our contract says you are paid a MINIMUM of 24.69 hrs for those 3 extra days---hence 84.69 hrs for the month.

(2) Can't really address what the Atlas pilots want in their upcoming negotiations. Street talk says they want Polar work rules and keep their current pay. Job security --- your dreaming pal --- get real. If furloughed, go look for another job, just like your doing now.

(3a) Quality of Life. This is the mantra of all Polar pilots. We have a VERY, VERY IMPORTANT provision in our contract (Sec 25.G.3., quote "No Crewmember will be required to report for duty on a scheduled day off"). This means no junior assignment, no "telephone tag -- your it," no requirement to work on one of your 14/15 or more scheduled days off based on your awarded bidline. So, if you want to work, you can. If you don't and the company calls you to ask you if you want to work on a scheduled day off, you can say, nope, I got to pick my toe nails on those day(s), so I'm not available. THIS is the MAJOR QUALITY OF LIFE issue we fought for and it still remains in our current contract. You control your life, not the company.

(3b) Layovers overseas range from 12 hours to 4/5 days.

(3c) Per FARs for Part 121 Flag Carriers and our contract: flights 8 hrs or less, 2 pilots; flights 8-12 hrs, 3 pilots; flights >12 hrs, 4 pilots. If you are scheduled for two legs with flight times totally more than 8 hrs, pilot complement will be 3 or 4.

(3d) You keep your passport/visas current, Polar does all other documentation for each international flight -- you review to make sure its there.

(3e) Polar is a 24/7 operation worldwide. Some flights start at 6PM local, some at midnight, some at 6AM, some at noon. It is not FeDex or UPS domestic with their midnight hour flying.

(4) Domiciles. Polar has only one, JFK. Most Polar guys (50-70% guess) do not start out of nor end at JFK. Company buys commercial ticket to/from your residence to start/from end of your assignment that is not JFK. Polar is CASS. No problem jumpseating from your home to JFK and back other than typical jumpseating problems experienced by any other pilot trying to jumpseat.

(5a) Schedule. Polar contract is 16 days. Exceptions allow for 17 days, but, each 17 day line must be matched by a 15 day or LESS line. Example, I am senior. I routinely fly 12, 13, 14 day lines. If I work more, it triggers Extended Duty Pay. So, if I am awarded a 12 day line, I start receiving EDP on day 13 and on. This is a MAJOR difference between Polar's contract and Atlas's contract. This is why most Polar pilots make more than their Atlas counterparts for comparable days worked.

(5b) Polar crews work either "less than 15"/15/16/17 days straight, or maximum two split pairings not to exceed 16/17 days. Latter example, one 5 day pairing separated by MINIMUM 5 days off, followed by say a 10 day pairing in a calender month.

(6) Taxes. Not an issue at Polar. All pilots are USA (JFK) based.

(7) Mgt Relations. We just struck at Polar. First pilots of an US air carrier in 7 years to do so. What do you think? AAWH/Polar mgt hates, etc Polar pilots. Polar pilots hate management. Just because we settled on a new contract does not mean that the environment has changed. 18 months from now will bring "this" to light----again.

(7a) Job is okay. Easy. One/two flights per day with 2,3,or 4 pilots with 1-4 days of layover between duty days. Catering is good. Crew rest hotels overseas, except AMS, are 4/5 star. No hassles from Crew Scheduling because of our contract. No intimidation from the company, like "you have to fly or your fired." That environment just does not exist here at Polar.

Hope this provides a clearer picture of work at Polar.

"POLAR BEAR"
PolarBear is offline  
Old 10-27-2005, 09:00 AM
  #4  
Gets Weekends Off
 
jwes's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: FO, B-777
Posts: 149
Default

Great Post, that was some of the best info I've heard....I hope someone can elaborate the same about Atlas, and what they might be up to....
jwes is offline  
Old 10-28-2005, 08:22 AM
  #5  
Captain Monkey Suit
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Thumbs up

PolarBear,

Thanks for posting that good info for us.
 
Old 11-01-2005, 04:26 PM
  #6  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Whaledriver's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Position: Left Seat
Posts: 466
Default

Well, I'll give you some insight from the Atlas side??? Whatever that is.

First, here's a link to our contract, should answer a lot of your questions.

http://www.atlasair.com/holdings/cb/default.asp

#1. You can't count on anything. If you arrive with low expectations, you will be pretty happy. Atlas has the STN base and at that base there are some clicks. Big surprise. You'll be busy, but you'll be gone up to 20 days a month, counting travel. Regular pay starts when you fly your first revenue leg after IOE. Closer to three months than four.

#2. What are we looking for??? Good question. We went for money on our first contract, now we're looking for work rules.

#3. Same kind of stuff as Polar, just a lot more changes. You might plan on flying between LAX and ICN and end up in AMS and DXB. Less work rules mean less quality of life. They can grab you at the end of a pattern and extend you. They pay extra for it, but if you have a wedding to go to, and your the groom, who cares about money.

#4. Right now, more bases than Polar, things could change soon. No telling what could happen to MIA. We are looking to get home basing as part of a new contract. Atlas is CASS as well, and Jumpseating is just like anywhere else.

#5. It all depends on your base. MIA is all Standby. ANC is mostly short trips, starting and ending in ANC. JFK is a lot like Polar, few start there. STN is a differant animal that I know little about. Most guys get long trips, or tie multiple trips together to cut down on commute. When it comes to using your four days off, I have only had 4 taken this year, others a lot more.

#6. Don't know.

#7. Poor. Scheduling and travel are constantly trying to violate the CBA, just because they can. I love the job and the people we fly with, but the anti-worker mangement is starting to wear on us. Things are a little tense around here right now, with Polar crews putting all the blame for their failed stike on the Atlas crews, who weren't on strike to begin with. The merger will be ugly. The MEC's have a major job in front of them, and their not playing well either.


All this being said, chances are, your not going to have a choice. With the "plan" to reduce Polar to 9 planes by late spring, they won't be doing any hiring. On the other hand, Atlas will be getting rid of classics and the -400 conversions are a ways away. The good news, there are over 30 retirements in the next twelve months, and normal attrition so we'll see.

Hope this helps...................
Whaledriver is offline  
Old 11-01-2005, 07:12 PM
  #7  
Captain Monkey Suit
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Thumbs up

Thanks WhaleDriver. Bummer...sounds like the pool sit might take a bit. Thanks again for taking the time to share that info.
 
Old 05-18-2006, 03:48 PM
  #8  
Gets Weekends Off
 
jrmyl's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: 747
Posts: 356
Default

Originally Posted by PolarBear
Captain Monkey Suit,

(7) Mgt Relations. We just struck at Polar. First pilots of an US air carrier in 7 years to do so. .

"POLAR BEAR"
Not to be a stickler for details here, but we at Comair struck in the spring of 2001 so you would be the first in 5 years to strike.

Thanks for the information though. Great post.

Jeremy
jrmyl is offline  
Old 05-18-2006, 06:30 PM
  #9  
Gets Weekends Off
 
MaydayMark's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: MD-11 Captain
Posts: 4,304
Default FedEx International Jumpseats?

[airfish]
How hard is the commute to STN? I live in MEM and FedEx has nonstops 6 days.[/QUOTE]

Dear airfish,

I don't believe FedEx permits offline international jumpseaters (not even CASS jumpseaters), not since 9/11. I even confirmed this fact with our Jumpseat Department before posting here. Does anyone else out there have (factual) conflicting information?

Sorry about that .... it's a company thing and out of the Capts hands. I'll track down the union j/s coordinator just to make sure I'm not posting bad gouge.

Mayday Mark ...
MaydayMark is offline  
Old 05-18-2006, 06:33 PM
  #10  
Gets Weekends Off
 
USMCFDX's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 1,804
Default

True: No international jumpseats on FedEx.

Sorry, we can not help to STN.

However, you can jump to ANC.
USMCFDX is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
nw320driver
Foreign
35
10-15-2010 07:41 PM
nw320driver
Major
15
11-17-2006 07:45 AM
flystraightin
Major
4
05-31-2006 06:31 AM
HSLD
Flight Schools and Training
2
05-14-2006 09:07 AM
RockBottom
Major
0
04-29-2005 07:26 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices