Purple or Brown: Who's schedules are better?
06-06-2007, 11:22 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Posts: 3,732
Originally Posted by MX727
His name refers to late at night, last call. That's when he lowers the minimum. Like the old saying: "If a girl's below your standards, Lower your standards 
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06-06-2007, 11:58 AM
#24
Gets Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: Nordskog Industries Field Technician
Posts: 688
union - ups enjoys better unity, much better at cooperating during contract negotiations on things like not flying extra etc. IPA has definitely handled the age 60 fiasco more gracefully. FDX guys fly disputed pairings and screw over their fellow crewmembers. (sore subject)
If you had 'disputed pairings' your guys would fly them and screw over fellow crewmembers. This is actually an advantage to the purple side, as at least we proactively combat onerous flying as it is presented. Furthermore, our contract was achieved solely by our guys not flying extra.
Other than that, damn good and informative post.
Cheers,
Phlyer
If you had 'disputed pairings' your guys would fly them and screw over fellow crewmembers. This is actually an advantage to the purple side, as at least we proactively combat onerous flying as it is presented. Furthermore, our contract was achieved solely by our guys not flying extra.
Other than that, damn good and informative post.
Cheers,
Phlyer
06-06-2007, 12:36 PM
#25
Gets all holidays off
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: Retired UPS 767 Captain, SDF Z
Posts: 431
Poof --- it's gone!
Originally Posted by dckozak
.....Not mentioned, vacation; At Fedex we get a full days pay for each day of accrued vacation. we can slide it, expand it, we can even go over bank (to be reconciled at the end of the year). definitly one benefit that is better than most. Don't know how it compares to UPS.
Under the new contract, you lost some vacation:Old: 1 week of vacation bank accrual 7x6CH=42 hours into the bank...
drop 1 week trip under 4:1 trip rig 7x6=42 hours debited from vacation bank. Result: even steven.
New: 1 week vacation accrual 7x6CH=42 hours into the bank.....
drop 1 week trip under 3.75:1 trip rig 7x6.4=44.8 hours debited from vacation bank. Hey where'd 2.8 hours go? Multiply this by four weeks per year, and that's 11.2 hours of credit MORE you need to get the same 4 weeks off, so there goes almost two days.
Now what was exchanged for this elsewherein the new contract, I have no idea....
06-06-2007, 12:53 PM
#26
Gets all holidays off
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: Retired UPS 767 Captain, SDF Z
Posts: 431
Probably, but be careful...
Originally Posted by de727ups
"At Fedex we get a full days pay for each day of accrued vacation. we can slide it, expand it..."
There will be none of that at UPS. You get paid 4 hours a day for unused vacation where a full day off of trip rig is 6.4. There is no sliding, wouldn't that be nice. All you can do is try to bid so your on days fall on vacation and get dropped. Unless you're in Z, you'd have to be pretty senior to effectively "cover" your two week vacation block. And, by the way, you can't split you're two week vacation slot into two one week periods. I have four weeks of vacation, but have to take it in three blocks, one of which has to be two weeks in a row.
Hope that makes sense. And I'm not complaining, either, but trying to help point out where it looks like Fedex has UPS beat.
There will be none of that at UPS. You get paid 4 hours a day for unused vacation where a full day off of trip rig is 6.4. There is no sliding, wouldn't that be nice. All you can do is try to bid so your on days fall on vacation and get dropped. Unless you're in Z, you'd have to be pretty senior to effectively "cover" your two week vacation block. And, by the way, you can't split you're two week vacation slot into two one week periods. I have four weeks of vacation, but have to take it in three blocks, one of which has to be two weeks in a row.
Hope that makes sense. And I'm not complaining, either, but trying to help point out where it looks like Fedex has UPS beat.
We carefully looked at the existing Federal vacation language this time around too, but kept our vacation language basically the same with some additional or accelerated accruals.
Be careful what you wish for
(someone PLEASE correct me if this is wrong): the Federal "slide" sounds GREAT to a brown guy, but you must compare apples to apples here. FedEx works with a BANK. Conflict a ten day trip rig with one week vacation that I can't slide off of, debit your vacation bank 10x6.4=64 hours. If I'm junior with two weeks of vacation for the year, that leaves only 20 hours in my bank for my next "week."At UPS I can touch one day of the same 10 day trip on vacation, and they can attempt to readjust me for the nine days that aren't vacation. For int'l pilots, you might get away with no adjustment, or a SDF-ANC-SDF trip, which I can then trade UP, and I'm pay protected and still have two more bites at the apple with my next three weeks later in the year...
In any case, I definitely have my one week of vacation OFF, and probably more...Too many other variables, so a direct comparison of our vacation language is tenuous at best.
Both systems have advantages and disadvantages for both senior and junior pilots. In the long run I like the UPS system better, but a commuter might like FedEx language a bit more.
06-06-2007, 01:15 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
What you say is true; if I use 10 days of your hypothetical 14 days I would have only 4 days left. However I can still slide, bid reserve, go in the hole or make up vacation to get my second week. Our vacation rules are incredible but you do have to pay attention when you bid for a month you have vacation.
06-06-2007, 01:26 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: FedEx
Posts: 666
At FedEx, you earn vacation days, and each one is worth 6 hours.
We USE vacation, however, by the hour, so if you have 7 days of vacation to use that is 42 hours. You then use those 42 hours to knock out trips via a slide, extension, or expansion as necessary. Plus you can go into the whole if you touch a trip worth more than 42 hours.
So the rig change didn't directly effect vacation at all. The same trip might be worth more, so you might not get as many full days off with the same number of days of vacation, but that is simply a matter of how many hours you care to burn on that particular vacation.
FJ
We USE vacation, however, by the hour, so if you have 7 days of vacation to use that is 42 hours. You then use those 42 hours to knock out trips via a slide, extension, or expansion as necessary. Plus you can go into the whole if you touch a trip worth more than 42 hours.
So the rig change didn't directly effect vacation at all. The same trip might be worth more, so you might not get as many full days off with the same number of days of vacation, but that is simply a matter of how many hours you care to burn on that particular vacation.
FJ
06-06-2007, 01:28 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 2,889
If you bid reserve, you can knock out more days at only 4.5 (ish) hours a day. You gotta bid smart, but reserve and vacation work nicely together.
Another tip...since vacation counts towards leveling, you can get a sweet amount of credit on your R -24 line if you have vacation at the beginning of the month.
Another tip...since vacation counts towards leveling, you can get a sweet amount of credit on your R -24 line if you have vacation at the beginning of the month.
06-06-2007, 01:35 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: FDX Airbus F/O
Posts: 152
On reserve... Can only expand to available hours left.. So NO deficit.. That only works for lineholders... But you can make 7 days = 9 days... Equals 40.5 hours of leveling!! Which if you live at the Planet will most likely get you the bid month off.. Well not off but if early in the bid month then a very LOW likelyhood of usage on reserve... Just my .2 pesos.. 
Last edited by Boom Boom; 06-06-2007 at 01:36 PM. Reason: typos
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