I say you and alafly are both right to a degree Capt Mark. Some guys will take anything -is that a positive- and some will question any change to the job they thought they were getting.

ALAFLY - One thing that seems for certain is that something untasty could come along any minute at any of the carriers.

BUT, if I was facing newhire to the right of the 75 in Paris with a family (say a 3rd, 5th, and 7th grader) back home ----see ya FEDEX. Family first, airplanes second. You owe your kids a good upbringing. You would have to be independently wealthy to get that in Paris on our payscale the first couple yrs with this LOA.

Alafly -- I am a clear NO voter. What you need to understand as you are critical of this LOA is that nobody finds it adequate. What some people are afraid of is giving you a worse deal by voting NO - so hopefully you get the opportunity to see how it plays out before they call! I hope it works out for you and all of us!

Alafly,

Hopefully you'll not make the same mistake twice. If you've been following the cargo side of this web site for any length of time, you should have come to the realization that here at FedEx, we b!tch about everything and anything, and, at the drop of a hat. However, none of us really like it when an outsider does our b!tching for us. As with the vast majority of these incidents, we usually circle the wagons, which is what happened to you here. This LOA might be sh!t, but it's our sh!t. If, and when, you're lucky enough to be here for a little while, you're more than welcome to join the b!tch-fest, until then, just please sit back and enjoy.

Disputing "indisputable facts"
 

Fair enough, we have that in writing.
CBA 24.C.5.b clearly states that a) is fact and b) is fiction. They can't force someone to go over there per the current CBA. However, if ratified, this LOA permits the forcing of unwilling crewmembers into these assignments involuntarily for up to 3 months at a time.
Yes, 1 move package is as currently provided in the CBA WITHOUT any housing allowance OR if you want the housing allowance, you get to take a whopping 500 lbs with you. In other words, if you want a housing offset, you have to get a furnished place, which further diminishes the value of that meager offset.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by av8torguy (Post 187914)

b) Housing offsets

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Only if you waive every syllable of previously negotiated CBA section 6 and elect the "enhanced" option of the LOA.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by av8torguy (Post 187914)

c) Income tax offsets

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True. We are told you will pay "approximately" the same federal tax burden as if you were Memphis. Details have not been forthcoming. What about the 1st year Hong Kong F/O who makes under 82K? Do that math and then tell me who gets the difference.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by av8torguy (Post 187914)

d) Longevity bonus

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Yes. $5000.00 after 4 years. That's 5000.00/48 months = $104.66/month.....BEFORE TAXES! If you upgrade during that time, those months in the ITU do not count.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by av8torguy (Post 187914)

e) Contractual protection and Status for pilots in these domicile's under the RLA.

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That agreement is there so the company doesn't find itself in a French labor court with a disgruntled pilot.

CaptainMark,

Your theory would have some merit if FedEx hired the same profile as most other majors. By and large they do not. Your average FDX pilot civilian or military tends to be hired at an older age here than at other majors. I know that there are people like you but that's not the norm. As a sidenote, I suppose they do it for cheaper pension payouts but it also allows some of us pilots to puff up our chests and feel that were better or more qualified than our counterparts at other carriers. Anyway your typical ex-regional check airman type who comes to FDX likely has the same wife and 3 kids that the military guy does, he's just 5-8 years younger but equally uninterested in living in Paris or Hong Kong on 50 bones an hour.

As I understand the purple nugget provision, they went to indoc and training with the expectation of going to Anchorage or Subic now versus Memphis later.

So, their decision was to grab the seniority # sooner rather than later.

It is my expectation that may occur again with the new domiciles.

Again, as I see it,
3 years and get a paid move of my stuff to the FDA---only added benefit is the tax equalization.
2 years, don't get to move my stuff--get up to a 2700$ housing allowance, and tax equalization.


In another post, someone figured out the average plane ticket cost for SIBA was around 3 grand (from the memphis propaganda rag) and viola, the housing allowance we negotiated seems to replace the ticket cost with a housing cost.

Doesn't seem to factor in the additional productivity that will occur once people are living in domicile (not a player for the Subic guys)....but still, out of the CDG guys, company will be getting a minimum of another 4 days of productivity without even trying that hard. Crank the optimizer, and it might be more.
Right now, that equates to about a 2k savings on salary. (widebody estimate of about 350$/hour per crew @ 6CH/ day = 2100 to be precise)
[Experienced narrowbody pay about 300$/hour is a bit cheaper]


So, just in extra productivity, talking about 8k per crew, and we are being offered up to 5.4k---if you take the 2 year package. Doesn't even seem to factor in the saved transportation costs. Doesn't factor in the savings on the hotel standby crews---sitting reserve @ home versus the CDG courtyard marriott 90 EUR/day@ 27 days (3 lines with HSBY for JUL) = 2430 EUR or 4800 EUR total



So, agree just to get that first contract or say no and work towards something better.

Hard for me to believe many of the existing SIBA guys are going to downgrade from widebody pay to narrowbody pay, take a cut in their QOL due to living in a more expensive area, and spend more time working versus DH to work----thanks to the grab the money now LOA and work on improving it later.

BTW-price of gas ROT is about twice the US....so, around 6$ a gallon. Guess that's another QOL hit I need to take to be a narrowbody FO and help FedEx through these trying economic times.

I'm sure they'll make it up to me once the economy improves.

I apologize for #2b, but I equated accepting a position/job with FDX predicated on your willingness to be based in HKG/CDG on "newhire" pay as "Being forced".

Not much discussion on #4? Hmmmmm?

FDA Vacancy Awards

1. Primary and, if applicable, secondary FDA vacancies shall be awarded in seniority order based on pilots' standing bids. The Company may elect not to fill secondary FDA vacancies.
2. No pilot may be assigned involuntarily to fill an FDA vacancy. If no pilot on the Master Seniority List expresses a preference by standing bid for an FDA vacancy, the Company may hire a pilot to fill that vacancy

Prediction:
Regardless of the LOA, pass or fail; No/0/Nada/Zilch Captain positions will be filled by a "Newhire"!
The top 80% of F/O's will not be "Newhires"!

mine was just an example...but if a bid comes out without the LOA do you really think that noone will bid these domiciles?...senior bus FOs flying SIBA will gobble up the 757 CPT slots and the subic guys will gobble up all the HKG slots...we all know it regardless of what the subic guys are saying now.."THEY ARE NOT COMING HOME"...remember this is the same crewforce that flies every single disputed pairing...:confused:

i could not have said that better...thanks!;)

ALAFLY...good luck with your class date...i hear from my management buds cassell wants a 3 yr bid right after the DC-10 excess bid coming out...we will see

Alafly, good luck and you've got our senior guys pegged
 

Do you remember 200%?
Do you remember how we folded like a house of cards when Mr. Smith threatened to lay off out of seniority?
Do you remember 10 years to get a cost of living raise? And then 3 years of negotiations to just get another one.
Do you remember one example of this pilot group standing up to anything?
Alafly, our senior pilots have been outplayed by the company at every turn cause we've never really been into that union thing. Our learning curve has been slow, painful, and embarrassing to anyone with a spine. We hate to be reminded of it and hope nobody in aviation knows. I think we are improving but the senior guys just figured out how to hang around for 5 more years. The truth hurts but some senior guys, the mid seniority and junior guys do have a different attitude. Anytime anybody brags about being here a long time and looks down on you, ask him why he let the company go 10 years without giving the pilots a raise duiring record profits? Thanks for the input and I hope you'll be negotiating my retirement raise some day.