Gooch121

no matter how great the floor show or how funny the jokes....it's still a NO vote!

everybody needs to copy skypine's thread starter, the MEC's Minority Report, staple them to the LOA and hand it out to anyone who hasn't educated themselves on this issue.

30 day STVs...then why does the LOA state:
STV awards shall have a duration between one and three bid periods.

If the Company's intent is to STV for 30 days (or one bid period), then in my opinion the LOA should say STV awards shall have a duration of one bid period.

How many times have you called the Union with this question:
Can they do that to me?

And received this answer:
That's what it says in the contract. Sorry!

I'm all for good intentions, think they're great between neighbors and friends. But the business world operates on a different level and part of that level deals with contracts. The power of the handshake deal and the "I'm as good as my word" business deals have given way to the pure black and white of the printed page.

While our MEC and others truly believe STV will only last "30 days" and have every intention of scheduling STV's for 30 days. Remember this....

"That's what it says in the contract"

A300_Driver

I'm with you on this one!!!
A NO Vote until this Ridiculous LOA is changed!!!

skypine27

This post is a repsonse from another thread:

"Ditto, well put! Get the word out, and here's a little more perspective from someone who has lived in France for more than 3 years:

You take an immediate 29% pay cut against the Euro, for each $100, you get 71 Euros. On top of that EVERYTHING is more expensive in France (Europe in general, 10-20%). In otherwords, a $300 television in the U.S. will cost you at least that or more in Euros...

300 Euros = $413...and it will more likely be 330-350 Euros. This equates to a minimum 40% loss in buying power.

Housing: You will need all new appliances and apartments/houses in France come COMPLETELY bare...no fridge, oven, microwave, dishwasher, washer/dryer, etc. When they move, most French take everything with them, down to even curtains & curtain rods. Not because they are jerks (arguable ) but thats just the way things work over there. When you move in you will have to COMPLETELY furnish the place.

Vote NO!!"


I was not aware of that about apartments in France. Yet another reason to vote this pig down, no matter how much lipstick Jack and Dave are putting on it.

FDXFLYR

Nice work!

I would add to the list of issues left unaddressed: legal protections and medical/dental/pharmacy/vision care. I think it's outrageous our union negotiators left these issues unresolved while recommending this for a vote. The resolutions may be easy and fine, but they should have been set in concrete before sending it to a vote.

I'm voting NO.

SleepyF18

What specific questions do you have on them? Call the office, ext 2011.

hfbpilot

I have called the office and emailed about the new health care we are going to get but cold not be provided any detailed info. The section in the contract is vague as to what is covered or available Doctors etc. and the Union only can tell me it's going to be better and cover everything covered now. While I hope that is true, I am skeptical because just a few people decided what coverage we all need and there is no choice to stay in the plan we have now. My daughter has to see a specialist, so I have been checking on this. Until we know the exact plan and have a plan number we cannot even check if our current Doctors take the new BC/BS insurance. I was told the contracts have already been signed. If that is true way not post some information so we can make a informed decision? Sort of makes you wonder!

MaydayMark

Forwarded to me by a SFS bubba: (reprinted here with permission of the author)
--------------------------------------

Please Read!

Unless you have been sequestered over the last 4 weeks, you have probably heard/read more about the FDA LOA than you would like. Whether or not you intend to bid an FDA, this LOA is detrimental for ALL pilots on our seniority list. It is not just about the financials. Here is a few thoughts that I haven’t really seen floating around the net.

STVs
1. If this LOA passes, we are giving the company the ability to break any attempt to show personal resolve during negotiations. This LOA allows multiple FDAs in the same geographical area (ie A310 CDG, 757 CDG). If, in 2010, CDG based 757 pilots decide to spend more time at home with their families, the company can declare the need for A310s in CDG and staff it inside a month with STV pilots. Would we be working under our current contract right now if this had been possible last summer?
2. Inverse seniority pilots to fill STVs on a 3 month TDY basis? If the living situation is so bad in an FDA that the company needs to force us to live there, why would we ever vote for this?

Enhanced Move Package
1. This is NOT an enhanced move, whatever the company calls it. Please note that the company has tied the $2700 ($1800 after tax) monthly housing adjustment to this package. This is NOT because the enhanced move package is a good deal. If a pilot chooses the far superior CBA move package, the adjustment is $0. If the company wants to offer a more convenient package for them – fine. But why are we taking the concession?

Not an expansion of flying
1. Realize that as the company is opening overseas domiciles, this is not exactly tied to expansion of the airline. We are not being posted overseas to open up more routes – we can do that with SIBA. The company is doing this to be more efficient. Pilots working more days in domicile means fewer pilots, less seniority list expansion. We shouldn’t block this idea, as efficiency enhances the overall health of Fedex, but why should we take concessions for this?

HKG GT
This is a great example of what is wrong with this LOA. Here we are waiving the 2 hour max GT parameter that we have won for our SIG in previous contracts. Why? Because it is more than 3 hours to CAN from HKG. But, we are waiving this with no restrictions for scheduling. Two examples of legal pairings:
1. HKG-CAN GT – 6 hours APT STBY – CAN-HKG GT
2. HKG-CAN GT – O&B HKG-MNL-HKG – CAN-HKG GT
Each of these has a duty period of about 12 hours, but with 6 hours in a van.
It is similar to riding from Nashville to MEM and back, with flight duty in between.
Is this really what we want?

Signing a Blank Check
We have no idea what the pairings or lines will look like. So let me get this straight. The company expects us to vote on this LOA prior to seeing what our professional life will be like in CDG or HKG? You can be assured that Fedex has built numerous sample pairings, lines, and even bid packs. Let’s get a look at these and lock in restrictions to potential onerous changes before we agree to any LOA conditions. Remember, the company wants US to lock in our intentions with 2-3 years commitments – shouldn’t we get the same from them?

Catering
A minor point, but it highlights how this LOA was not well thought out by our MEC. The only catering required for CDG based crewmembers (as opposed to SIBA) will be a mini-snack into CDG, and a mini-snack outbound. This is because of how duty periods are catered with respect to a pilot’s trip ending in an FDA and a new trip starting with the outbound leg. Read the first sentence of Sect 5.E.1. This section is currently being applied in Subic. MD-11 crews hubturning through SFS are catered as per their complete DP (over 9+00 duty, two full meals). SFS based crews hubturning Subic receive a mini-snack inbound, and a snack service (management loves us) outbound, even with a 12+00 duty period.

Why the Rush?
When was the last time that our union negotiated something as big as this LOA without polling? It seems that we are being rushed into an agreement that is, well, everything the company needs, and serves our association rather marginally. What is the
rush? Management needs to keep the schoolhouse filled and they want to bundle an FDA LOA with an upcoming bid. We have been successfully flying SIBA with double deadheads for over 15 years. Why now the sudden rush?

What if it gets turned down?
While most pilots I know are planning to vote NO on this LOA, a few pilots voting for it have expressed concern of ‘what if it gets turned down?’
1. To my knowledge, there has not been a single offer from management that hasn’t improved after the crewforce opposed it. When the original Subic domicile opened in 1995, not enough pilots bid the new location. The company offered a larger signing bonus, and got the pilots they needed. We’ve turned down two TAs and two “3%” offers. All four times we showed some resolve to management and gave our negotiating committee some needed clout to work a better deal.
2. The company can’t do it without our help. While our flying (according to our MEC during our current CBA road shows) is protected legally by our scope agreements, our biggest protection is the good job we do each and every night. When routes are flown by non-fedex pilots, our reliability drops to unsatisfactory levels. Remember, if the freight doesn’t get there on time, it’s free. Also, if the company felt that they could fly our routes with other pilots, they would have done it by now.
3. So if the LOA is turned down, we might have to work under the current CBA provisions? SFS is currently working under the current FDA provisions, and I have not met any SFS pilot who would rather work under this LOA.

Conclusion
This LOA will affect all of us for years to come, and a substandard deal serves no one in our crewforce. Once again, the company is trying to save millions on the back of the pilots, and broker an LOA that not only serves them in the FDA, but cripples our ability to pressure negotiations in 2010. Please vote NO and empower our negotiating committee to work a fairer FDA agreement.

SleepyF18

Like I said, call the office, ext. 2011. Micro did and he stopped by and chatted for 1/2 hour or so. If you can't stop by, I'll talk to you on the phone.

Micro

Took the offer and headed to the office for a face to face. After getting patted down at the door and run through the metal dectector (OK I'm KIDDING) I got to ask my questions to WR and DM. If I get the gist of their answers the slightest bit wrong I hope to be corrected.

1. I would like to know why the union can't (or won't) webcast or "film" (then send via CD) these roadshows so that members who cannot attend them get the information being offered and hear answers to questions posed? Answer: Cost involved and the ALPA National BOD decision to not allow it. Legal reasons. Also from the com chair:
The consistent answer from the lawyers is the legal exposure to the union. I will take it up again with the lawyers and officers. I think it would be good to be able to do this. Thanks for the input.

Not what I feel is a suitable answer, considering the open roadshows we have, but we need to press the BOD, thru our MEC, to wake up to 21st century communications.


2. If we wrote specific language into the current CBA stating that a pilot couldn't be inversed into a FDA, why are we giving this back to the company? Did we not write it into the contract for a specific reason? If so, what has changed? Answer: You still can't be inversed into an FDA but can be inversed into SIBA or STV (if this LOA passes).


OK stupid me! It's true you cannot be inversed into an FDA.


3. Why give the company STV when we already have SIBA? And doesn't the STV give them much more productivity? Answer: The STV was negotiated to cover short term flexability for the compay to open these bases and is limited to two years. SIBA is not limited. The company could build SIBA lines where the trips give minimal time home between trips.


OK, but I'd still be HOME for my 15 or so days off. I still think a SIBA bid would work instead and we wouldn't need STV.


4. 30 day "intent"? Why don't we go back to the company and have the LOA revised to reflect 30 days MAX? Remember I-96? Answer: The lawyers feel this FCIF legally binds them to thirty days/one month. If the company doesn't honor the 30 days we can grieve it.


This is a real hard point for me. If the company really would only do 30 days MAX then amend the LOA, if not, I won't believe them. Take a violation of the 30 day "limit" to a grievance and I feel the "judge" wil look at the signed LOA and say "The LOA says three months and you signed it".


5. We already do extraterratorial flying on almost every A/C and Subic has been doing it for years. What more presidence do we need? Why should we agree to this LOA if we're already doing it? Answer: Now it's OFFICALLY on paper and the company has agreed to it. This is a HUGE thing that our ALPA lawyers, and the others we've hired, say is a GOOD thing.


OK, yes it is on paper but I think we already have presedence that couldn't be denied. The company agreed to this because WE agreed to allowing the pilot sign the agreement to have just RLA rules cover us vice country (ie France) labor laws. I think this agreement, to have RLA cover us is OUR leverage.


6. If EXPAT packages are give to the RCP's of these FDA's what EXTRA skills do they have (JL letter)? They come from the line just like us and are still just pilots. Answer:

Sorry, I can't print what was said so we all wouldn't get in trouble (Smiley face denied by forun here).


That was the end of my questions. I still don't like the LOA and am voting NO but they have no problem answering ANY question AND taking the heat if the question doesn't like the answer. Although I don't agree wth them THEY are my union and I will go to them before I EVER take up the offer from our dear ACP Len.


Other topics discussed were (their comments):
Health care. BCBS website does have some answers. I can't find the link (a little help here sleepy).
GT in Hong Kong. The waiver of the two hour limit was so that the company would not have to come to SIG every time to get approval for the GT in Hong Kong. It has nothing to do with pay just the time limit that can be scheduled.
Filling the FDA's. They think most slots will be filled by guys who already want to go whether the LOA passes or not. The rest by new hires if need be. (I have a gentlemans bet on this one..I'm saying no way).


Ask question, go to roadshows, READ the LOA and make up your mind whether the LOA is worth it for the 5000 guys we have here. NO from me.

FDXLAG

So we grieve it. How long does that process take? Before or after the 24 month window? Can we waive the fly now grieve later policy for 90 STV deployments?