Summarize your views.....pro or con
08-08-2007, 06:56 PM
#21
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 34
Voted NO here are some of my reasons.
- Tax equalization, housing allowance are not to be looked as perks. When these are standard on a expat package.
- Company not wanting to post what the lines would look like have a lot to say in my opinion.
- How would you like to limo for 5 hrs before and after a duty period not taking into account the extra couple of hours required to and from your house to the limo meeting point. Deadheading is not considered crew rest (FARs). On top of this how are we going to be paid remains an unknown.
- Once a year FDA crews will go to MEM for recurrent training and if the lines are going to be non commutable (probably the reason why these haven't been posted) you will have to wait for the next month's 15th paycheck to get paid. This one is already happening (SFS crews) I suggest you do the numbers. It is a @ 11 days of pay (at a minimum) that will be taken out of your current BLG. Not to mention that these crews will be living in cities ranked among the most expensive ones around the world.
- SFS has been in the building block since our first contract and every time our issues have been thrown away by the NC. Because, we were a minority and they were "negotiating for 4000+" Newsflash FDA bases will always be a minority. Do you really think that in the next round of negotiations the NC will be willing to give up anything for an FDA? Look at the NC track record for the last 2 contracts.
- The individuals trying to sell this LOA probably have never lived overseas in civilian life. However are the ones trying to make the majority of this pilot group believe that it is a good deal. One or two visits to Guanzhou using the train to ride back and forth from HKG (Not even a Limo ride. But they know that it only take 3 hrs to do it?) cannot make you an expert. However these individuals have tried to squash the voices of those who presently live overseas.
- Why was BC is allowed to belittle the SFS crews and the vocal minority on his latest email. DW why won't you allow the SFS Rep the same free hand to counter BC?
- The STV will have a negative impact on those who will be affected by it (individuals that did not want to go).
- I have been in SFS since the 90's and during my time we had been treated as Bast... at best from both sides. Subic has been a pretty good deal but it has had its shortcomings as well. The vocal minority only wants to avoid the same mistakes from occurring again and for new ones to take place. The Company is doing its part to avoid mistakes (STV among others).
- I just wish that in the next round of negotiations the NC looks more into the future and listen to the warnings instead of living in the present and in the past. For example:
- Remember when we gave up per diem on out and backs because there were not enough of them? How are those am and pm out and backs looking now.
-Remember when SFS was the only FDA but not big enough to pay attention to their needs (crews)? We knew that the future was going to be on the international arena and that FDX always had intentions in opening other FDAs. Now are we to believe that this LOA is to be the building block for future negotiations? I don't think so. Once again look at the NC track record.
For those of you that want this LOA to pass all I have to say is to get use to this quote "You had choice"
- Tax equalization, housing allowance are not to be looked as perks. When these are standard on a expat package.
- Company not wanting to post what the lines would look like have a lot to say in my opinion.
- How would you like to limo for 5 hrs before and after a duty period not taking into account the extra couple of hours required to and from your house to the limo meeting point. Deadheading is not considered crew rest (FARs). On top of this how are we going to be paid remains an unknown.
- Once a year FDA crews will go to MEM for recurrent training and if the lines are going to be non commutable (probably the reason why these haven't been posted) you will have to wait for the next month's 15th paycheck to get paid. This one is already happening (SFS crews) I suggest you do the numbers. It is a @ 11 days of pay (at a minimum) that will be taken out of your current BLG. Not to mention that these crews will be living in cities ranked among the most expensive ones around the world.
- SFS has been in the building block since our first contract and every time our issues have been thrown away by the NC. Because, we were a minority and they were "negotiating for 4000+" Newsflash FDA bases will always be a minority. Do you really think that in the next round of negotiations the NC will be willing to give up anything for an FDA? Look at the NC track record for the last 2 contracts.
- The individuals trying to sell this LOA probably have never lived overseas in civilian life. However are the ones trying to make the majority of this pilot group believe that it is a good deal. One or two visits to Guanzhou using the train to ride back and forth from HKG (Not even a Limo ride. But they know that it only take 3 hrs to do it?) cannot make you an expert. However these individuals have tried to squash the voices of those who presently live overseas.
- Why was BC is allowed to belittle the SFS crews and the vocal minority on his latest email. DW why won't you allow the SFS Rep the same free hand to counter BC?
- The STV will have a negative impact on those who will be affected by it (individuals that did not want to go).
- I have been in SFS since the 90's and during my time we had been treated as Bast... at best from both sides. Subic has been a pretty good deal but it has had its shortcomings as well. The vocal minority only wants to avoid the same mistakes from occurring again and for new ones to take place. The Company is doing its part to avoid mistakes (STV among others).
- I just wish that in the next round of negotiations the NC looks more into the future and listen to the warnings instead of living in the present and in the past. For example:
- Remember when we gave up per diem on out and backs because there were not enough of them? How are those am and pm out and backs looking now.
-Remember when SFS was the only FDA but not big enough to pay attention to their needs (crews)? We knew that the future was going to be on the international arena and that FDX always had intentions in opening other FDAs. Now are we to believe that this LOA is to be the building block for future negotiations? I don't think so. Once again look at the NC track record.
For those of you that want this LOA to pass all I have to say is to get use to this quote "You had choice"
Last edited by ECQLO; 08-08-2007 at 07:25 PM.
08-08-2007, 07:19 PM
#23
...Whatever It Is!
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,680
Originally Posted by FDXLAG
Not to mention imposing a GT waiver on us similar to the one the SIG just revoked.
Ground Transportation over two hours …The SIG approval for the company to schedule Ground transportation over two hours has been revoked. This is due to the excessive duty periods that have arisen involving the HKG to SZX GT. Not reflected in the September 2007 pairings, it will be seen in October.
08-08-2007, 08:12 PM
#25
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: B777
Posts: 48
Do we currently have the best contract in the industry--Yes
Do we have the best international flying of any U.S. carrier---Yes
Do we want to be a part of any more international expansion---Yes
Do I want to get inversed to China for 30 days---No, but better than 90+
Will this flying happen without this LOA---YES
Should future pilots have the option of the enhanced or CBA move---YES
Did I want to move to Paris---Yes
Can I afford to move to Paris under the LOA--- No, not with 2 kids (MY big sticking point)
Is the company REALLY tring to sell this thing---YES
Is the Union in cahoots with the company---No (Yes I know,Kennedy was really shot by Martians)
Is this LOA a really good deal---NO
Is this the best deal that was avaiable---yes,I do believe the Mec folks after 3 hub turn meeting,45 min. talk with my block rep,and reading everything I could about this.
Would pilots still complain if we got $15,000/mo housing,COLA adjustment,private limo,Gardner,and paid education for our kids---YES because we didnt get the massuse and I'll be dammed if I 'll go there without the massuse.
.
I was a definate NO, but I feel good with my yes vote now.
Do we have the best international flying of any U.S. carrier---Yes
Do we want to be a part of any more international expansion---Yes
Do I want to get inversed to China for 30 days---No, but better than 90+
Will this flying happen without this LOA---YES
Should future pilots have the option of the enhanced or CBA move---YES
Did I want to move to Paris---Yes
Can I afford to move to Paris under the LOA--- No, not with 2 kids (MY big sticking point)
Is the company REALLY tring to sell this thing---YES
Is the Union in cahoots with the company---No (Yes I know,Kennedy was really shot by Martians)
Is this LOA a really good deal---NO
Is this the best deal that was avaiable---yes,I do believe the Mec folks after 3 hub turn meeting,45 min. talk with my block rep,and reading everything I could about this.
Would pilots still complain if we got $15,000/mo housing,COLA adjustment,private limo,Gardner,and paid education for our kids---YES because we didnt get the massuse and I'll be dammed if I 'll go there without the massuse.
.I was a definate NO, but I feel good with my yes vote now.
08-08-2007, 08:22 PM
#26
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 122
Originally Posted by U2FDX
Do we currently have the best contract in the industry--Yes
Do I want to get inversed to China for 30 days---No, but better than 90+
I was a definate NO, but I feel good with my yes vote now.
Do I want to get inversed to China for 30 days---No, but better than 90+
I was a definate NO, but I feel good with my yes vote now.
08-08-2007, 08:26 PM
#27
New Hire
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 6
Fellow Pilots…long time lurker and first time contributor. As a 10+ year pilot at FedEx I fall squarely in the middle of the 80% bell curve which BC mentioned . I have watched these blogs over the past 18 months, gleaning a little information here and there on a variety of issues ranging from Bids and DP’s, to layover recommendations. These are some thoughts on the pending LOA:
1. Has any manager or union official stated they will lead by example and bid these FDA’s?
2. Has anyone heard anyone on the line say they will vote for this LOA and bid a FDA ASAP? Each person I have asked who is passionately making a plea for the FDA has the same response: “I would bid it but…”, “I would love to but my wife…” , “Oh it would be great except for the fact…”
3. Yes we all know “FedEx is a for profit company”. This LOA could be easily tweaked to address many valid issues that have been addressed without breaking the bank or making it too “good of a deal” (God forbid!) that’s not business, that’s just “the right thing to do”
4. Probably the most ludicrous point is the 500 lb allowance. (10 suitcases?) Excuse me, but “DON’T WE WORK FOR A SHIPPING COMPANY!?”
5. Beyond the STV,…wait for a bid to come home ?or surrender our legal rights for Tax prep? I don’t think so.
6. CDG is not HKG is not Subic. I know. They are each different. The “silver bullet” approach missed the mark.
7. We are all on the same side and want FedEx pilots flying FedEx freight, so why the animosity?
8. I see this LOA passing by crewmembers who have no intention of ever bidding an FDA or who are too senior to be affected.
I have never been more disappointed by both management and the union (who I pay to slap me around) who only resort to “berating” the crew force for having the “gall” to raise provocative questions. Thanks to the union volunteers (unpaid) who try to do the right thing.
Finally, I voted No .(once) Not out of spite, retribution for Age 60, VEBA, or any other issue. The LOA is just inadequate for the job and sacrifices. Or perhaps I am just tired of red letters and veiled threats every time we as a group try to gel and tell management or our union that something is just not right.
Now, back to point 1. Which leader, manager or union, will be the first to bid an FDA?
1. Has any manager or union official stated they will lead by example and bid these FDA’s?
2. Has anyone heard anyone on the line say they will vote for this LOA and bid a FDA ASAP? Each person I have asked who is passionately making a plea for the FDA has the same response: “I would bid it but…”, “I would love to but my wife…” , “Oh it would be great except for the fact…”
3. Yes we all know “FedEx is a for profit company”. This LOA could be easily tweaked to address many valid issues that have been addressed without breaking the bank or making it too “good of a deal” (God forbid!) that’s not business, that’s just “the right thing to do”
4. Probably the most ludicrous point is the 500 lb allowance. (10 suitcases?) Excuse me, but “DON’T WE WORK FOR A SHIPPING COMPANY!?”
5. Beyond the STV,…wait for a bid to come home ?or surrender our legal rights for Tax prep? I don’t think so.
6. CDG is not HKG is not Subic. I know. They are each different. The “silver bullet” approach missed the mark.
7. We are all on the same side and want FedEx pilots flying FedEx freight, so why the animosity?
8. I see this LOA passing by crewmembers who have no intention of ever bidding an FDA or who are too senior to be affected.
I have never been more disappointed by both management and the union (who I pay to slap me around) who only resort to “berating” the crew force for having the “gall” to raise provocative questions. Thanks to the union volunteers (unpaid) who try to do the right thing.
Finally, I voted No .(once) Not out of spite, retribution for Age 60, VEBA, or any other issue. The LOA is just inadequate for the job and sacrifices. Or perhaps I am just tired of red letters and veiled threats every time we as a group try to gel and tell management or our union that something is just not right.
Now, back to point 1. Which leader, manager or union, will be the first to bid an FDA?
08-08-2007, 08:28 PM
#28
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: B777
Posts: 48
Originally Posted by Lipout1
Enjoy your 30 days away with only 14 days of pay.
08-08-2007, 08:36 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Unknown Rider
Posts: 533
I wouldn't normally consider myself a flip-flopper, but this LOA has me completely out of sorts.
I'm a NO voter and will stay that way, but my way has been very convoluted. I certainly hope that I'm making the right choice, but I'm not certain. Either way, I'm not changing again. Here's the synopsis:
Vote #1: NO. Think it is a bad deal, the company can do better, not particularly impressed with anything the Union was saying and felt that there was a condescending attitude there, hard press by company makes me think they are trying to pull one over on us, Union appears to completely agree with company and this seems extremely odd.
Vote #2: YES. Getting atleast some money now makes it easier to start from a higher point later in the next CBA, don't want to deprive someone who wants to go the money that will make their transition easier, I have some sympathy for the new hires that will be coming and going to the FDAs as those guys' bills are going to be brutal, I would rather that we keep this flying on our list.
Vote #3: NO. Still not impressed by the hard press from the Union, feel we have some leverage, don't like the STV language and am convinced that the company will ram it to us on this issue alone, don't think it is completely right to ask your pilots to sacrifice so much (I don't care if they make the choice to go there--no one should have to take such a major financial hit right out of the gate), 500 pounds of moving allowance is a joke, etc. etc.
Guys, this is a tough decision. I think this deal MIGHT be different situation as far as leverage. I do think the company wants these FDAs now, I think they want us to do the flying, I think the spin-up time will be prohibitive if they have to try to outsource the flying.
But here's the kicker: I'm not thrilled with ALPA at this point. I think it is sickening to watch them backbite and publicly undercut each other (such as the SFS rep). The condescension and arrogance at the top is wrong. Everyone has a vote, everyone has a voice, and nobody should not feel free to say what's on their mind. When I hear of BC wanting to "fight" anyone who disagrees with him, I think it's uncool and counterproductive to the goals we're trying to achieve together. This kind of emotion is something that I think needs to be removed from the negotiating process and makes me wonder how many times the company may have taken advantage of that previously.
I think this LOA blows and the company would be getting a REALLY good deal if it passes. But I think ALPA is letting us down too.
This stinks.
Disappointed,
WM
I'm a NO voter and will stay that way, but my way has been very convoluted. I certainly hope that I'm making the right choice, but I'm not certain. Either way, I'm not changing again. Here's the synopsis:
Vote #1: NO. Think it is a bad deal, the company can do better, not particularly impressed with anything the Union was saying and felt that there was a condescending attitude there, hard press by company makes me think they are trying to pull one over on us, Union appears to completely agree with company and this seems extremely odd.
Vote #2: YES. Getting atleast some money now makes it easier to start from a higher point later in the next CBA, don't want to deprive someone who wants to go the money that will make their transition easier, I have some sympathy for the new hires that will be coming and going to the FDAs as those guys' bills are going to be brutal, I would rather that we keep this flying on our list.
Vote #3: NO. Still not impressed by the hard press from the Union, feel we have some leverage, don't like the STV language and am convinced that the company will ram it to us on this issue alone, don't think it is completely right to ask your pilots to sacrifice so much (I don't care if they make the choice to go there--no one should have to take such a major financial hit right out of the gate), 500 pounds of moving allowance is a joke, etc. etc.
Guys, this is a tough decision. I think this deal MIGHT be different situation as far as leverage. I do think the company wants these FDAs now, I think they want us to do the flying, I think the spin-up time will be prohibitive if they have to try to outsource the flying.
But here's the kicker: I'm not thrilled with ALPA at this point. I think it is sickening to watch them backbite and publicly undercut each other (such as the SFS rep). The condescension and arrogance at the top is wrong. Everyone has a vote, everyone has a voice, and nobody should not feel free to say what's on their mind. When I hear of BC wanting to "fight" anyone who disagrees with him, I think it's uncool and counterproductive to the goals we're trying to achieve together. This kind of emotion is something that I think needs to be removed from the negotiating process and makes me wonder how many times the company may have taken advantage of that previously.
I think this LOA blows and the company would be getting a REALLY good deal if it passes. But I think ALPA is letting us down too.
This stinks.
Disappointed,
WM
08-08-2007, 08:40 PM
#30
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 122
Originally Posted by U2FDX
If that is all I will have to endure;(which I will as a bottom 80%er on the bus )to secure the International expansion for the last 23-28 years of my fedex career thats ok with me. I will have a beer or two for you.
