The results of our leadership's decision making should be the SAME! We're looking up to them for guidance/representation!

Maybe it's the military in me, but if the CO said one thing, the XO said another, then OPS sided with the XO, but the TRNGO went with CO...SAFETY's head is spinning....what the ****** is an E-4 supposed to think? I mean, c'mon here!!

Right now the anti-union-ites are laughing their arses off at us...

AND we have the gall to point fingers, badmouth the non-members, publish their names...no wonder they don't want to belong! We look like a bunch of idiots!! "I support", "I don't support", "You can change your vote you know!" "FOR", "AGAINST"...BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!! :mad:

What kind of politics are going on up top? It's either FOR or AGAINST!!

I can't believe I'm paying money for this?!!!

Union my a$$...:mad:

Wait a minute....not long ago a lot of people on APC were complaining that MEC votes were a shame 'cause nobody disagreed. We questioned the validity of 13-0 votes. We asked how could a group of 13 individuals representing such a diverse group always vote 13-0 on tough issues (ie Age 60/65). I challenge you to review many of the threads during the Age 60 debate and count the number of times people questioned a vote with a 13-0 score. I know I did. But, thats just my opinion.

If you want 13-0 votes, again my opinion, might as well make it 1-0. You could do away with the other 12 positions and save the $$$.

I agree with Gooch.

We need input and discussion.

Nah, we just need 11 new reps.

MY MEC SPEAKS FOR ME, no wait it doesn't...I gotta decipher all the spinning going on here and make my own decision...wait I did that already (I can do that without paying dues also).

Soooo, where's the unity in our "union"? We are no way acting/upholding the definition of unity?

With respect to us vs management, I want 13-0, I want all of us on the same ballot!! Anything else is BS. I want to hear this is either BS vote against OR it's great vote for!

What kind of message are we sending to management when we waffle around on a topic? If I were them, my job just got easier, I see they're devided!! I can pick out a person, go after them to change their vote. Whereas, if I saw my oppostion had a steadfast 13-0....I'd think, we're screwed on this one, they're pretty solid on this topic.

I welcome opinions, sure, but, when we speak, we should speak as ONE...clearly we ar NOT. Same goes for the Age 65 topic...we were DIVIDED.

Or if everyone just fell in line with a singular vote then mgt could say...

'just convince one and the rest will follow'

Nothing wrong with less than an unanimous vote.

Maybe he is saying that the LOA should have been better so that it would have gotten a unionanamous recommendation?

Me, I don't care if the vote is 11-0 or 6-5. Just provide honest accountable answers to questions. It would also be nice if everyone got to hear the answers.

magic rat, I respectively disagree.

If I understand your position, using the current LOA as an example, when the MEC published their original vote on the agreement and the tally was 11-1 in favor (granted it's not 13-0, but pretty darn close) the issue would have closed. No opportunity for membership discussion and the LOA in it's original form would have become part of our CBA. If this is your position, sorry I gotta' disagree.

That's exactly my point...if we were a UNION, we'd be UNITED on a given topic. A 13-0 vote 12-0 vote 1-0 vote is UNITY. If the elected officials vote X-0, then WE decipher what is being passed our way and say, no way jose, then we're NOT A UNION! What kind of UNION are we...what happened to "MY MEC SPEAKS FOR ME" if I gotta chop whats coming in my INBOX without blindly signing off because now I don't trust my elected officials to do the right thing for the pilot group. IF it was the right thing, we would all be on board.

IS THIS LOA GOOD FOR US OR NOT? PERIOD!!! Why are we divided on this. I'm a pilot, you're a pilot, we're all pilots working for the same company. Is this good or bad.

Clearly, from what I get from this on this board, it's a sh!t sandwich...why am I getting rhetoric stating otherwise from persons working for us at the top? My elected officials.

A

Sorry MR

I want healthy discussion and debate. I don't mind everyone not being aboard. What I really want is my union to do its job. Think things thru, cost them out and come to US with a package that all 4800+ of us can be proud of.

Not all things need to be 12-0. I can read and think...and a dissenting opinion is a good basis in which to have a discussion of the merits, or lack there of, of a LOA, CBA or anything else.