Options for those moving to an FDA
#11
"g. Commitment Period
i. A pilot must complete two years as an active pilot in the FDA, unless released from his obligation due to extenuating circumstances by the Vice President, Flight Operations."
I would understand failing to complete the commitment period due to 'extenuating circumstances', but what does 2gii mean:
"ii. If a pilot fails to complete his commitment period without a release from the V.P., he shall be obligated to repay his seed money and any money paid by the Company for storage."
How can one fail to complete the commitment period WITHOUT a realease from the VP??
Also, how easy/difficult is it to secure visas for HKG and France, how about for one's spouse whether working or not?
I don't have the mil leave option, and don't think I would try it right after getting on property.
Yes, as Hefeweizen said, if anyone has time to paste the Section 6, Existing CBA option (3 year commitment) for an FDA to fully understand an 'unaccompanied move'.
Thanks again for all you guys who take time to post answers to questions everyone on property knows. It's a clear example that your scheduling must be pretty decent- since you have time to waste here
i. A pilot must complete two years as an active pilot in the FDA, unless released from his obligation due to extenuating circumstances by the Vice President, Flight Operations."
I would understand failing to complete the commitment period due to 'extenuating circumstances', but what does 2gii mean:
"ii. If a pilot fails to complete his commitment period without a release from the V.P., he shall be obligated to repay his seed money and any money paid by the Company for storage."
How can one fail to complete the commitment period WITHOUT a realease from the VP??
Also, how easy/difficult is it to secure visas for HKG and France, how about for one's spouse whether working or not?
I don't have the mil leave option, and don't think I would try it right after getting on property.
Yes, as Hefeweizen said, if anyone has time to paste the Section 6, Existing CBA option (3 year commitment) for an FDA to fully understand an 'unaccompanied move'.
Thanks again for all you guys who take time to post answers to questions everyone on property knows. It's a clear example that your scheduling must be pretty decent- since you have time to waste here
#12
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: B767/CPT
Posts: 56
Relocation
When someone has a spare moment or two for a cut and paste, I would be curious to find out what qualifies as "pilot relocation of a permanent residence" according to Section 6 of the CBA. I know this sounds like a dumb question, but, as a poolie, if my only offered choice to fly Purple is to head overseas, one of my personal choices may be an "unaccompanied remote" (not selling the house and leaving the family here in the US). I want to make sure that I'm operating with correct info and not assuming anything...thanks in advance for your help.
F. General
1. A relocation request form shall be submitted to Labor Relations to initiate benefit
eligibility.
2. A pilot shall advise Labor Relations in writing of the completion of his relocation.
His relocation is complete when he has established a new permanent residence
for himself and, if applicable, his spouse and/or dependent children within the
acceptable radius of his base within 12 months following his activation date. The
Company shall verify completion of a pilot's relocation based on objective factors.
3. In extenuating circumstances, the designated Company official may deem that a
pilot has completed his relocation even though some of the factors ordinarily
establishing a completed relocation are absent. If the pilot subsequently fails to
complete his relocation, as provided in Section 6.F.2., the pilot shall be deemed
never to have relocated and shall be obligated to reimburse the Company in
accordance with Section 6.B.8.
4. The Company may request documentation to establish that a pilot has completed
a relocation, as provided in Section 6.F.2. The documentation may include, but
is not limited to, settlement statements relating to the purchase and/or sale of
residences, verification of the movement of household goods and automobile(s)
to the new location, verification of the permanent relocation of a pilot’s spouse
and/or dependent children under the age of 18 years, if applicable, establishment
of a pilot’s residence at the new location for purposes of applicable property or
state income taxes, driver’s license, automobile registration and voter’s
registration. A pilot shall submit documentation requested by the Company in
accordance with this paragraph.
5. If a pilot becomes obligated to reimburse the Company for expenditures related
to relocation, he may request of the Labor Relations Department a repayment
schedule based on a mutually agreeable per pay check amount. If the parties
are unable to agree on an amount to be deducted per pay check, the Company is
authorized to initiate a payroll deduction of up to 25% of the gross amount due.
Unless mutually waived by both the pilot and Labor Relations, the maximum
period allowed for repayment under this provision shall not exceed nine (9)
months.
6. Notwithstanding the provisions of Section 6.F.5. (above), if a pilot’s obligation to
reimburse the Company for expenditures related to relocation becomes the
subject of a grievance filed pursuant to Section 20, the period contained in
Section 6.F.5., shall not commence until final resolution of that grievance
pursuant to Sections 20 and 21.
Hefe, there are NO DUMB QUESTIONS, just dumb LOA's, just kidding.
First you need to get things from sources, CBA, LOA, and Company relocation specialists. There are a lot of opinions on these boards and you would not want to bet your happiness on the accuracy, this includes my opinion.
Second, this ain't the military, you live and die by the contract and its provisions, so best to know what they are in advance.
Third, there are a lot of "hidden" details in the contract, especially as it applies to new hires.
Example:
If you accept an FDA (HKG,CDG) as a first assignment you will recieve training pay until you have completed whatever, yet to be determined, training program is adopted. I was a newhire went direct to SFS and made less than 29K the first year. This was due to the fact that training was three months, I was sent home for a month with pay (training pay) until a training slot opened, did a full IOE in the states, then had to do an Asia specific IOE/Checkout, still on training pay. This could be how they do it in HKG and CDG or they could make up any training program they like.
The kind of move you refered to in you thread, is called a crash pad move and is covered in the CBA. If you take that option, or any option out of the CBA, as a newhire, you would receive 2k relocation allowance instead of the 10K in the LOA. You may be able to take the "enhanced" option provided by the LOA, but if your not planning on taking your family you had better talk with fedex relocations before assuming the move qualifies. Note the sections above state that you have to show, to the companies satisfaction, that you have met the requirements(see 6.2.F). Either way you will be under the provisions of tax equilization, the specifics yet to be tested. Check the Price, Waterhouse, Cooper, site to see what information you can decipher from their generalizations.
This LOA has not been tested.... Do not assume anything. You may be able to move from an FDA in two years or if it "goes" junior and hiring slows you could find yourself there for a while.
Don't plan on commuting. That is one thing repeated in the communications from the company and the union.
Better have a financial plan, (ie. savings, outside income, spousal income, military pay, etc) if you plan on taking one of these jobs as a newhire. A single guy might make it work, but a family guy will be using some alternate source of money for the first year.
This is a very good company to work for and getting your "foot in the door" may be a very good idea. But if it means going straight to a FDA each person had better analyze their personal situation.
Good luck with your decision.
1. A relocation request form shall be submitted to Labor Relations to initiate benefit
eligibility.
2. A pilot shall advise Labor Relations in writing of the completion of his relocation.
His relocation is complete when he has established a new permanent residence
for himself and, if applicable, his spouse and/or dependent children within the
acceptable radius of his base within 12 months following his activation date. The
Company shall verify completion of a pilot's relocation based on objective factors.
3. In extenuating circumstances, the designated Company official may deem that a
pilot has completed his relocation even though some of the factors ordinarily
establishing a completed relocation are absent. If the pilot subsequently fails to
complete his relocation, as provided in Section 6.F.2., the pilot shall be deemed
never to have relocated and shall be obligated to reimburse the Company in
accordance with Section 6.B.8.
4. The Company may request documentation to establish that a pilot has completed
a relocation, as provided in Section 6.F.2. The documentation may include, but
is not limited to, settlement statements relating to the purchase and/or sale of
residences, verification of the movement of household goods and automobile(s)
to the new location, verification of the permanent relocation of a pilot’s spouse
and/or dependent children under the age of 18 years, if applicable, establishment
of a pilot’s residence at the new location for purposes of applicable property or
state income taxes, driver’s license, automobile registration and voter’s
registration. A pilot shall submit documentation requested by the Company in
accordance with this paragraph.
5. If a pilot becomes obligated to reimburse the Company for expenditures related
to relocation, he may request of the Labor Relations Department a repayment
schedule based on a mutually agreeable per pay check amount. If the parties
are unable to agree on an amount to be deducted per pay check, the Company is
authorized to initiate a payroll deduction of up to 25% of the gross amount due.
Unless mutually waived by both the pilot and Labor Relations, the maximum
period allowed for repayment under this provision shall not exceed nine (9)
months.
6. Notwithstanding the provisions of Section 6.F.5. (above), if a pilot’s obligation to
reimburse the Company for expenditures related to relocation becomes the
subject of a grievance filed pursuant to Section 20, the period contained in
Section 6.F.5., shall not commence until final resolution of that grievance
pursuant to Sections 20 and 21.
Hefe, there are NO DUMB QUESTIONS, just dumb LOA's, just kidding.
First you need to get things from sources, CBA, LOA, and Company relocation specialists. There are a lot of opinions on these boards and you would not want to bet your happiness on the accuracy, this includes my opinion.
Second, this ain't the military, you live and die by the contract and its provisions, so best to know what they are in advance.
Third, there are a lot of "hidden" details in the contract, especially as it applies to new hires.
Example:
If you accept an FDA (HKG,CDG) as a first assignment you will recieve training pay until you have completed whatever, yet to be determined, training program is adopted. I was a newhire went direct to SFS and made less than 29K the first year. This was due to the fact that training was three months, I was sent home for a month with pay (training pay) until a training slot opened, did a full IOE in the states, then had to do an Asia specific IOE/Checkout, still on training pay. This could be how they do it in HKG and CDG or they could make up any training program they like.
The kind of move you refered to in you thread, is called a crash pad move and is covered in the CBA. If you take that option, or any option out of the CBA, as a newhire, you would receive 2k relocation allowance instead of the 10K in the LOA. You may be able to take the "enhanced" option provided by the LOA, but if your not planning on taking your family you had better talk with fedex relocations before assuming the move qualifies. Note the sections above state that you have to show, to the companies satisfaction, that you have met the requirements(see 6.2.F). Either way you will be under the provisions of tax equilization, the specifics yet to be tested. Check the Price, Waterhouse, Cooper, site to see what information you can decipher from their generalizations.
This LOA has not been tested.... Do not assume anything. You may be able to move from an FDA in two years or if it "goes" junior and hiring slows you could find yourself there for a while.
Don't plan on commuting. That is one thing repeated in the communications from the company and the union.
Better have a financial plan, (ie. savings, outside income, spousal income, military pay, etc) if you plan on taking one of these jobs as a newhire. A single guy might make it work, but a family guy will be using some alternate source of money for the first year.
This is a very good company to work for and getting your "foot in the door" may be a very good idea. But if it means going straight to a FDA each person had better analyze their personal situation.
Good luck with your decision.
#13
Your C.O. should expect a call from your C.P. if that were to occur. This has been done in the past but if it is done, you're still a probie until you've put in your time "on the property" and not in a squadron. Meaning, if you take a 10 month voluntary deployment, then you can expect another 10 months on probationary status.....
Whether or not the above holds true - remains to be seen. A few new-hires in my class attempted it and were spanked pretty quickly.
Whether or not the above holds true - remains to be seen. A few new-hires in my class attempted it and were spanked pretty quickly.
I'm certainly not advocating getting hired with the intention of going on long term mil leave and I'm NOT trying to start a pi**ing contest over mil leave - I'll leave that for FI.com. My main point is that we have put future new hires into a very precarious financial position if they are forced to go straight to a FDA in order to get the job. Were I in their situation, with a family to support and care for, I wouldn't necessarily jump on this job unless I had a good plan in my hip pocket. You're free to agree or disagree with me, but living in HKG on 5,000$ a month is going to be hard.
#14
Mil Leave
That’s a sensitive subject. I remember sitting on the crew bus a few years back in Memphis after deadheading in to sit reserve as a new hire starting 23 December. At the same time this young reserve guy was explaining to the assembled group how he had ‘Never’ missed Christmas at home – all you have to do is drop mil leave! Did not sit well at all with this retiree. I hope the company takes a hard look…
#15
That’s a sensitive subject. I remember sitting on the crew bus a few years back in Memphis after deadheading in to sit reserve as a new hire starting 23 December. At the same time this young reserve guy was explaining to the assembled group how he had ‘Never’ missed Christmas at home – all you have to do is drop mil leave! Did not sit well at all with this retiree. I hope the company takes a hard look…
fbh
#16
Normally I wouldn't want the company taking a hard look at anything we do. I'd rather ALPA look at us and let the company focus on making money and growing the biz. In this case, though, I'd like to see the company look at mil leave closer. I think they'll find that 99% of the mil leave drops/requests are legit.
Last edited by Deuce130; 08-17-2007 at 11:32 PM.
#17
Military Leave
OK, i'm going to throw this out there....I have been here a LONG time after leaving th AF. I keep hearing all these games the mil leave guys are playing.
What exactly are guys able to do with mil leave that seems to be so lucrative for both money and time off that I'm just not aware has been going on and what should the company be looking for....call me ignorant on this subject because I really haven't been paying attention to this area because it doesn't affect me....
Gosh is that how the LOA got thru....?
What exactly are guys able to do with mil leave that seems to be so lucrative for both money and time off that I'm just not aware has been going on and what should the company be looking for....call me ignorant on this subject because I really haven't been paying attention to this area because it doesn't affect me....
Gosh is that how the LOA got thru....?
#18
Normally I wouldn't want the company taking a hard look at anything we do. I'd rather ALPA look at us and let the company focus on making money and growing the biz. In this case, though, I'd like to see the company look at mil leave closer. I think they'll find that 99% of the mil leave drops/requests are legit.
fbh
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,227
I say God bless 'em.
If it weren't for mil leave we wouldn't hire as many pilots.
Plus I get the distinct impression it ain't such a good deal as it used to be... a friend of mine from church just got called up - he was in logistics, but now they're making him a policeman in Basra.....
If it weren't for mil leave we wouldn't hire as many pilots.
Plus I get the distinct impression it ain't such a good deal as it used to be... a friend of mine from church just got called up - he was in logistics, but now they're making him a policeman in Basra.....
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: MD11FO
Posts: 213
It's definitely a 1% thing. As a member of the NJ reserve sq that probably contains the most FedEx pilots from any one unit I can say that 99% of the guys are doing it right. Unfortunately, its that 1% that I hear about on the crew bus...
I know we make an attempt (not always successful) to police our own. I hope the other units are doing the same.
I know we make an attempt (not always successful) to police our own. I hope the other units are doing the same.
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