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Deviation Question

Old 09-19-2007, 10:33 PM
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I understand you cannot deviate on the first leg of a two leg same day deadhead. What about deviating on a trip with a two day deadhead (ie. first day domestic deadhead - layover-second day international deadhead.) In that situation can you deviate on the first day and still keep the second day deadhead as scheduled? Inquiring minds want to know?
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Old 09-19-2007, 10:37 PM
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They don't allow it for ANC two day DH's overseas.
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Old 09-19-2007, 10:39 PM
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Thanks for the quick reply.
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Old 09-20-2007, 07:13 AM
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I've deviated on a 2 leg deadhead on the way to Paris. Instead of ANC-MSP-EWR, I went SEA-EWR. I kept the EWR-CDG leg as originally scheduled. Just remember, in VIPS you can't pick and choose which flight you want to deviate from. Once you select deviate, everything dumps. When I talked to Corp Travel to set up the SEA-EWR leg I just made sure they re-booked me on the original flight EWR-CDG too.
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Old 09-20-2007, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by sparkmo View Post
They don't allow it for ANC two day DH's overseas.
1. Who is "They"? I wasn't aware of that restriction in ANC? I could have missed it though - I've done exactly this multiple times with no questions asked. Can't find any emails/FCIFs addressing it.

2. The contract does not prevent you from deviating only on the first leg (domestic OR international)

3. Evidently, VIPS is not currently programmed to cancel individual legs of a multi-leg deadhead.....but "O" has promised to fix that (ref his email on 19 July titled "FOX and Deviation Issues" - almost the last paragraph).....but even this VIPS programming problem doesn't prevent you from single-leg deviating.....I think "O" meant he's trying to get VIPS fixed back to the way it used to be.....not 100% sure that's what he meant though.

You just have to deviate in VIPS (cancels all legs front or back) and then (like 2005 Blues said) call Global Travel and have them re-book you on the legs you didn't want cancelled. Do this early in the bid month or your First Class seat may not be available.

4. If you're asking - "am I protected once I join back up with the scheduled DH?" - I think the answer is probably no - any time you deviate (at all) it's all on you to get to the operating leg (in place) with the required minimum time (12 hours intl) prior to show.

I thought I remembered an email/FCIF from JL in the past addressing this, but I couldn't find it anywhere for reference.....he was answering the question about 'what if I end up on the same flight with the rest of the crew and then none of us end up getting there on time?'.....I think he said in that particular case you wouldn't get spanked individually for initially deviating.....but don't quote me on that one - I couldn't find a copy of that one.

....but you ARE definitely allowed to do it.

Just my two cents.....hope it helps.
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Old 09-20-2007, 08:30 AM
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I think O came back with another mailing that said it was an security issue with TSA (one traveler record over 2 legs). Too difficult to do, etc., etc.

I used to deviate the first leg out of MEM and then pickup the rest of the trip on the second DH all the time. Seemed like a win-win for all. Now it's just yet another stressor/hassle with deviating (added to TSA stuff, high fares, airline cnxing, 8hr/12hr check-in, etc.).

Any positive news coming down the pike for the deviator? Probably not.
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Old 09-20-2007, 10:00 AM
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"They" is whoever is cancelling all the front end DH's and ground transportation when you only ask to cancel the DH on the first day. I do hope they fix it. It is somewhat insane to be deviating on the "scheduled DH" and arrive with no ground transportation.

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Old 09-20-2007, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by sparkmo View Post
"They" is whoever is cancelling all the front end DH's and ground transportation when you only ask to cancel the DH on the first day. I do hope they fix it. It is somewhat insane to be deviating on the "scheduled DH" and arrive with no ground transportation.

Cheers
yes. the same email (from "O") addressed that GT issue as well in the same section he talked about multiple leg deviations - he said he's trying to "fix" both of those programming problems....not sure if the GT getting cancelled has been fixed or not - I haven't done this kind of deviation since the "O"-gram came out promising to fix it.

has it been fixed? anyone?

so, I guess the "THEY" is the programming in VIPS - not ANC flt ops admin or anyone human - I think it's just happening "automatically" since they switched to the FOX system and the computer system generates/cancels DH legs and sometimes GT in conjunction with.

still.....nothing prohibits you from ONLY deviating on the first leg.....you just have to do more legwork yourself to re-book the legs that you want to keep (after they get cancelled by VIPS) - may be a good idea too to make sure GT is still scheduled/booked AFTER you deviate in VIPS but BEFORE you actually arrive.

it definitely is NOT as easy as in the old days (before FOX) though - but still possible/legal to do.
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Old 09-20-2007, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by AFW_MD11 View Post
yes. the same email (from "O") addressed that GT issue as well in the same section he talked about multiple leg deviations - he said he's trying to "fix" both of those programming problems....not sure if the GT getting cancelled has been fixed or not - I haven't done this kind of deviation since the "O"-gram came out promising to fix it.

has it been fixed? anyone?

so, I guess the "THEY" is the programming in VIPS - not ANC flt ops admin or anyone human - I think it's just happening "automatically" since they switched to the FOX system and the computer system generates/cancels DH legs and sometimes GT in conjunction with.

still.....nothing prohibits you from ONLY deviating on the first leg.....you just have to do more legwork yourself to re-book the legs that you want to keep (after they get cancelled by VIPS) - may be a good idea too to make sure GT is still scheduled/booked AFTER you deviate in VIPS but BEFORE you actually arrive.

it definitely is NOT as easy as in the old days (before FOX) though - but still possible/legal to do.
I will be flying the scheduled second leg to Paris next week. I deviated on the first leg only in VIPS. Will report back on whether G/T was still there or not.

I looked into this issue extensively a while back and posted a couple threads on the subject. This whole debacle started when the company switched to FOCUS. For every person I spoke with I got a different answer as to why we couldn't deviate on the first leg only. Some said it's a FOCUS software issue and needs to be fixed. One ACP told me it now aligns more closely to the CBA and the original intent. Another told me that G/T should never get cancelled because it's a different department and they don't cancel when you deviate. Wrong!
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Old 09-20-2007, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by machz990 View Post
.....I deviated on the first leg only in VIPS......
well.....well......I guess "O" or someone must have actually followed through on their "fix".

I just looked at a trip of mine that has two front-end DH legs, and VIPS will now allow me to selectively cancel the legs (like the old system) again vs. having to click one box to cancel all legs (front or back)

Thanks for the info Machz990.

Let us know if it works as advertised - ie. like it used to before FOCUS.
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