UPS rumor
 

I've read lots of rumors on this board about second hand, "I heard from a guy who heard from a manager....", information.

Well, this time I am going to be the one to start the "I heard it from a manager." I met one of the flight ops execs (not an ACP or check airman) who told me that UPS will soon announce an increase to the 767 order from 27 to 41. He said that UPS is also looking at second hand 767-300's over and above the brand spankin new 41. Plus, there WILL be more 747-400's on the way. No intel about when or where from.

Old rumors, I know. But this is the first time I heard these two rumors directly from a credible source first hand.

Anyone got more intel...second, third or fourth hand rumors?

Rott.

I can believe it. The 767's on Order I have heard are for DC-8 repalcements-not growth. Since UPS has decided against the A300, the 767 is the choice.

And 41 sounds just about right. 2009 to 2014 range. So I see the DC-8 being on property for another 7 years. Not 2 or 3 like some are saying.

I also heard 41 the other day while passing thru the Master Base for AQP..I just thought the person mentioning it was delirious...hmmm, they still might be but I did hear 41.

Headed back to the 'Kong

FF

South African Airways just announce that in November they will start to shed their 747-400's. British Airways will shed their's in the future when they start receiving 787's and A380's (which will be a while).

IMHO more 747-400 will be announced soon.

I luuuuuvvvvvv flying the 767, flies a bit nicer than the 757 me thinks. Also heard the rumor of picking up some more 767s, depends on the USAF tanker deal to some extent. Apparently we got the most recent batch of 27 at a very attractive price but Boeing didn't want to extend the production too much longer if they lost the tanker deal since they have to start ramping up for 787 production as they have already sold over 500 of those beauties!

Another juicy rumor...company's possibly looking at used 777 BCFs (Boeing converted freighters). Could be the beginning of another MD-11-type bidding war between UPS and FedEx for these airframes. Believe it or not, there are some 777s available on the used market.

Also heard a bad rumor that UPS may not put EFBs in the converted 747-400 freighters, cost savings, thus none would be turned on across the fleet. Let's hope this is not true, a dumb idea if they decide to do this! I think the union would fight this one, as UPS has sold it as an efficiency and safety feature.

Precontact - nice avatar picture you got. What's the total hourly fuel burn on "your" bird? :D

Well, not sure to be exact, but at least you can dispatch with 6 engines inop!
Well as long as they're not all on one side ;)

I have to agree with the thought that UPS will become one of the largest operators of used 747-400s. The open question I ask is how long is the waiting list to have "doors/floors" mod done to the passenger birds. At my former gig, we were told it was 1-2 years...

Any thoughts ???

FF

Can back up part of this:


Had a guy from aircraft acquisitions on the jumpseat tonight going to Roswell NM. He was on the way to pick up a Delta MD11 out of the boneyard and take it to Singapore to get refurbished this week. He heard nothing of new 767's. He did say they are trying to acquire 747-400's from wherever they can get them. 747-400's was key according to him.

Two schools of thought.

1. Find the bird, make the deal, get the next open slot, get the mod done, fly it home, yeah, 1-2 years.

2. Actually perform the P2F Mod, around 3-4 months.

Let me add to this rumor. At a 747-400 meeting a month or so ago. J.B. said he would like to see 30 747-400 on the property and that someone in some department was watch to see who was planning on giving them up to make way for the 747-800s. No time line was given on when or IF that would happen.

British Airways is the largest operator of 74-4s (RB211-534 though but some commonality with the RB211-535s on some of the the 757 fleet I think, but I don't know), and they just announced a deal to replace them with A380s and either 787s and A-350XWBs. We shall see, I'm still waiting for a call :rolleyes:

UPS won't buy a 400 unless it's GE powered.

I don't know if I would agree with that. If you can buy enough to justify the logistics requirements then why not? How many engine types are in the MD-11 fleet? The 757 767 fleet has three engine types and yes the 767 has the same engine as the current and known ordered 747-400's.

MD-11s are either GE or Pratt. Since there is a limited number of them for sale, UPS has no choice but to buy whatever they can get. Believe it or not, but UPS is starting to see the light on fleet type reduction and commonality issues. There are lots of GE powered 400s to be had and since the total number will probably be around 25-30, there will be no problem finding what they want (GE).

I don't think it's an issue, however time will tell. Fleet type reduction is something different than multiple engine types. I would think if you could get a good deal on the jets then there has to be a break even point where it becomes relevant regardless of what you or I would (pilots) want. I'm also not sure where you get the 25-30 number as the 400 was bought to replace the early whales and no replacement has been announced for the A380 (and I believe there was 15 firm / 15 options on it). If UPS has given up on the 380 and decides to focus solely on the -400 then I would think it they would need more than 15 (added to the 15 or so already ordered to replace El Classico Whale) to meet the same lift capability of the A380. Plus with the up sizing of the fleet and the Ocho won't be around forever.
Obviously all the above is opinion as I have no known or claimed inside intel.

Wouldn't it be nice if we became an all Boeing fleet? B747/757/767 and maybe even a 777?

I heard that B787 won't be big enough but heck, I say throw in a B797 or even a B807! - I'm thinking about our future here... :D

I had one of UPS's Maintenance Fed's on my jumpseat last week and he did say they were getting 4 747-400's in 2008 and an additional 9 in 2009 and 12 in 2010. He didn't say where they were coming from though!

Hope this helps.

ERJ CAPT

It sounds like he was talking about the 13 birds we already have on order....plus an extra 12 further down the road, interesting...

Since you mentioned Boeing's and the future, you need to include the Boeing DC-8. :p I know, sticks in everyones craw :)

...you're right - Boeing MD11 too...:D