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Old 10-20-2007, 02:52 PM   #1
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Question Training Conflict with R day Question...

Quick question for you contract gurus:

I have R 24 in November and a warm up/PC. My R24 line carries over into December with a block of R days from November 27th to December 8th.


I know if I bid training in the middle of R days, it drops the whole block of R days:

Section 25. c. 11. f. ii. (page 220)
“If the pilot’s recurrent training splits a block of R-days, then the entire
block shall be dropped as a phase-in conflict and the pilot shall not be
responsible for any of the R-days in that block.”

Question:

If I bid a November 29 or 30 training date, will it also drop my carryover days in the December bid month? (Will it drop December 3 through December 8 even though it’s the next bid month?)

Thanks in advance for any help!

XJGuy
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Old 10-20-2007, 03:07 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XJGuy View Post
Quick question for you contract gurus:

I have R 24 in November and a warm up/PC. My R24 line carries over into December with a block of R days from November 27th to December 8th.


I know if I bid training in the middle of R days, it drops the whole block of R days:

Section 25. c. 11. f. ii. (page 220)
“If the pilot’s recurrent training splits a block of R-days, then the entire
block shall be dropped as a phase-in conflict and the pilot shall not be
responsible for any of the R-days in that block.”

Question:

If I bid a November 29 or 30 training date, will it also drop my carryover days in the December bid month? (Will it drop December 3 through December 8 even though it’s the next bid month?)

Thanks in advance for any help!

XJGuy
Good question, I would call Monday and ask futures to be sure. I would say it will drop the entire block. I have read nothing in the CBA that says carryover days are treated any different on the training bids.

This was another big giveback in my opinion. Bidding for recurrent has turned into a boon for the Company, almost everyone is training on days off now. The old method was much better for R lines especially. The only plus is being able to conflict a large trip or block of R days if you want time off and they are short manned (not likely in the near future) or during our next CBA talks we can really open up lots of trips this way, wait I am dreaming again ! Back to our regularly scheduled program.
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Old 10-20-2007, 04:20 PM   #3
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The company does not like to mess with carryover. If I was a betting man (I would lay 7:1 odds that I am) I would bet that the company would not touch the Dec R days.
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Old 10-20-2007, 06:17 PM   #4
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The company does not like to mess with carryover. If I was a betting man (I would lay 7:1 odds that I am) I would bet that the company would not touch the Dec R days.
I agree they do not like to mess with C/O, but if they do not drop the whole block if training splits it, then that would not follow the CBA. There may be some wording that addresses this but I will take that bet !
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Old 10-20-2007, 10:43 PM   #5
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Thumbs down Bad Deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cylinderdriver View Post
Good question, I would call Monday and ask futures to be sure. I would say it will drop the entire block. I have read nothing in the CBA that says carryover days are treated any different on the training bids.

This was another big giveback in my opinion. Bidding for recurrent has turned into a boon for the Company, almost everyone is training on days off now. The old method was much better for R lines especially. The only plus is being able to conflict a large trip or block of R days if you want time off and they are short manned (not likely in the near future) or during our next CBA talks we can really open up lots of trips this way, wait I am dreaming again ! Back to our regularly scheduled program.
That's exactly what I was saying back in March when the new training conflicts took effect. A lot guys were saying it was better now because they could bid for a training slot, but they were thinking it was something it has not turned out to be. Bottom line it is a loose for us and a win for the company. Now you don't get paid for your dropped trips, and it is up to you to go into open time to fly more if you want your pay back. Plus most of us are not senior enough to get the training slots we want anyway.

Bad deal! It cost me 10 hours last March because I was not able to pick up anything that fit into my commuter line.

The company schooled us on many parts of this CBA, and the LOA is a Joke! We need to get a clue, the company is laughing at us, look at all the trips turning to hard time. If you are not feeling up to flying because of the reduced rest on these layovers - call in fatigued! That's the only way to fix these trips!

Later!

Last edited by Flaps50; 10-20-2007 at 10:50 PM.
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Old 10-21-2007, 06:08 AM   #6
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Plus most of us are not senior enough to get the training slots we want anyway.
50% of the seniority list are in the top half of seniority!
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Old 10-21-2007, 12:16 PM   #7
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I had this exact situation in September. Was awarded an R-24 line with R-days from Sept. 18 - Oct 6 (Oct bid month started on Oct 1.)

I bid for Warm-up/PC on the 23-24, and ALL R-days were dropped, INCLUDING the carryover ones.

You are first dibs at picking up open time trips in the View/Add window, though. Worked out great for me. Good luck!
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Old 10-21-2007, 12:22 PM   #8
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A question about picking up make-up trips from the view/add window to replace these r-days. Are you able to drop-trade them later if something comes up?
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Old 10-21-2007, 12:32 PM   #9
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A question about picking up make-up trips from the view/add window to replace these r-days. Are you able to drop-trade them later if something comes up?

You should, as they become part of your line for the next month and are included in your BLG. I dropped one for this month after Open Time release, when I inadvertantly added a DP during the View/Add window (had not seen the SIG letter for Oct when I did the View/Add process.)
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Old 10-21-2007, 03:58 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Purple Nugget View Post
I had this exact situation in September. Was awarded an R-24 line with R-days from Sept. 18 - Oct 6 (Oct bid month started on Oct 1.)

I bid for Warm-up/PC on the 23-24, and ALL R-days were dropped, INCLUDING the carryover ones.

You are first dibs at picking up open time trips in the View/Add window, though. Worked out great for me. Good luck!
THANKS!

That answers my question so now I know how to bid before the conflict/input window closes.

I have been "lurking" for a while and appreciate all the views you folks have. As a newbie it really has been informative (and entertaining!).

Thanks again.
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