Council 22
11-21-2007, 06:02 PM
#1
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: DA900EX
Posts: 5
Council 22
I suppose that if you are happy with the December bid packs or if you believe that the Foreign Domicile LOA is a good deal for our pilots, then maybe you should vote for Vic’s opponent.
If, however, you are tired of the status quo and you are tired of being told that the union knows what is best for you, then I would encourage you to vote for Vic Liberti.
Life-style and work rules were the number one priority of this crew force during our last contract negotiations, and Vic’s opponent was directly responsible for what we got and was on the committee that produced the secret letter that allowed the company to get rid of dead head commonality and city purity.
The crew force was not told of this letter until after the vote. I would ask you, are you happy with what’s been happening with our trips and lines? Whoever you elect will be directly responsible for the contents of the next contract. I for one believe it is time for a change. We need someone who is responsive to the membership, and I believe that someone is Vic Liberti.
If, however, you are tired of the status quo and you are tired of being told that the union knows what is best for you, then I would encourage you to vote for Vic Liberti.
Life-style and work rules were the number one priority of this crew force during our last contract negotiations, and Vic’s opponent was directly responsible for what we got and was on the committee that produced the secret letter that allowed the company to get rid of dead head commonality and city purity.
The crew force was not told of this letter until after the vote. I would ask you, are you happy with what’s been happening with our trips and lines? Whoever you elect will be directly responsible for the contents of the next contract. I for one believe it is time for a change. We need someone who is responsive to the membership, and I believe that someone is Vic Liberti.
11-21-2007, 06:22 PM
#2
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 47
Originally Posted by RC44
I suppose that if you are happy with the December bid packs or if you believe that the Foreign Domicile LOA is a good deal for our pilots, then maybe you should vote for Vic’s opponent.
If, however, you are tired of the status quo and you are tired of being told that the union knows what is best for you, then I would encourage you to vote for Vic Liberti.
Life-style and work rules were the number one priority of this crew force during our last contract negotiations, and Vic’s opponent was directly responsible for what we got and was on the committee that produced the secret letter that allowed the company to get rid of dead head commonality and city purity.
The crew force was not told of this letter until after the vote. I would ask you, are you happy with what’s been happening with our trips and lines? Whoever you elect will be directly responsible for the contents of the next contract. I for one believe it is time for a change. We need someone who is responsive to the membership, and I believe that someone is Vic Liberti.
If, however, you are tired of the status quo and you are tired of being told that the union knows what is best for you, then I would encourage you to vote for Vic Liberti.
Life-style and work rules were the number one priority of this crew force during our last contract negotiations, and Vic’s opponent was directly responsible for what we got and was on the committee that produced the secret letter that allowed the company to get rid of dead head commonality and city purity.
The crew force was not told of this letter until after the vote. I would ask you, are you happy with what’s been happening with our trips and lines? Whoever you elect will be directly responsible for the contents of the next contract. I for one believe it is time for a change. We need someone who is responsive to the membership, and I believe that someone is Vic Liberti.
Here Here!! Obviously the old blood needs to go! Only way to work out way to up is start down low! Wish I could vote for him!(dont know him but that doesn't matter)
11-26-2007, 11:18 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Drinking from the fire hose
Posts: 305
Vic asked if I would post this letter for him.
Fellow Council 22 Members:
I’m Vic Liberti, and I am asking for your vote as Block 2 Representative.
As promised, this paper deals with my views on retirement plans, which is one of the key reasons I have decided to run for office. Thus far, we have failed to recognize the rapidly changing landscape concerning retirement issues. We have exhausted much time and effort on negotiating items like how the monthly bid is processed, and have neglected to place enough emphasis on this “bread and butter” issue. It is vital at this time that we refocus our efforts mainly on achieving the things that are vitally important to our financial security.
Allow me to provide a bit of historical information so that I can better make my point.
Until recently, defined benefit pensions (A-Plans) were to be a sure thing for American workers. If you worked long enough, you could count on a predetermined stream of income at retirement, backed by the government.
Now, however, a series of defined benefit pension failures at large companies like LTV Steel, UAL, Delta, Bethlehem Steel, Kaiser Aluminum, US Airways and Polaroid have cast doubt on such certainties. While the government insures pensions via the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation (PBGC), steelworkers, pilots, executives, managers and mechanics have all discovered that the pensions they earned are far richer than the insurance coverage provided by the PBGC; something they did not know until their pension plans had failed.
In the case of US Airways pilots, when the plan failed, they had about 33 cents for every dollar promised to pilots. Pilots 53 and older got to divide the remaining money in the plan while those under 53 got hosed. Those pilots under age 53 (I’m not exactly sure how age 53 was chosen) will only receive the PBGC maximum of approximately $32,000 per year when they retire at age 60 (or approximately $49,500 at age 65).
Who stands to lose if a plan fails?
US Airways’ misfortunes raise important questions for millions of workers and retirees who participate in defined benefit pension plans. Highly compensated workers such as pilots (and/or those with a generous defined benefit formula) stand to lose the most. Under the 2007 limits, the PBCG covers pension benefits of up to approximately $49,500 a year for individual participants who retire at age 65. This maximum increases annually with inflation. For pilots who must (or under new rules choose to) retire at age 60, the maximum is approximately $32,000 annually.
Dollars and Cents
Allow me to bring home this atrocity even further, using US Airways as an example. Let’s say a US Airway’s pilot got hired when he was 25. This pilot was a senior captain with 26 years of service at age 51, when his defined benefit plan was terminated.
US Airways had a large defined benefit formula. Pilots earned 65% of their final average earnings with 25 years of service and 70% of final average earnings for 30 years of service.
This pilot would have already earned a defined benefit pension of approximately $125,000 per year when he reached age 60. Now, stay with me on this…HE ALREADY EARNED THIS MONEY… he worked for it for 26 years. But because he was under 53, he will only receive the PBGC maximum of approximately $32,000 per year at age 60 and several thousand less if he elects a joint and survivor benefit.
Could it Happen Here?
In 2000, US Airway’s plan was fully funded; by 2003, they had to terminate it. Delta was fully funded in 2000 and was terminated due to lack of funds within 5 to 6 years. It was the same story elsewhere folks, and it gets worse. We assume the PBGC will continue to have sufficient funds to continue paying off these terminated plans. This is not a certainty.
The PBGC is an independently run quasi-government entity and does not receive any government funding.
It would have to reduce benefits in the future if these defined benefit plans continue to be terminated. As a result, our A Plan is very much a promise to pay, not a guarantee.
I hope I have clearly demonstrated to you that defined benefit plans face significant challenges. While it could be said (and has been said) that our current plan is fine, the sobering reality is that it could turn on a dime. It is my considered opinion that the priorities set at the beginning of the negotiating process failed to evolve over time with regard to this vitally important issue.
So What Do We Do?
Let’s look at a pilot hired at FedEx at age 30 who starts to receive credits in his/her A-Plan and is vested in 5 years. What FedEx is insinuating to that pilot is that it will survive as a corporate entity for 60 or 70 years and be able to pay this pilot a defined benefit pension. And in lieu of that, the PBGC will be there to pay a portion of his/her hard earned pension if the company cannot. That doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me.
I would argue for a solution that places the pilot in control of as much of his/her retirement benefits as possible. This could be accomplished by re-balancing our defined benefit, (A-plan) and defined contribution (B-Plan) mix so as to de-emphasize the A-Plan and increase the B-Plan. UPS has embraced such an approach, by instituting a 13% B-plan in combination with a smaller A-plan. This mix has more retirement money being controlled solely by the pilot and is in the pilot’s name.
For the senior pilots, I would fight to put provisions in the contract to protect their A-Plans because unlike the young guys, they have what they have. These provisions would include full or partial lump sum payments. Cost of living adjustments, subsidized joint and survivor benefits and an agreement with the company which would allow a union pilot to be seated on the pension oversight committee.
Thank you for taking the time to read this letter. I hope you found it helpful. Please consider these ideas when determining what direction you want this Union to take in the future when you cast your very important vote.
I’m Vic Liberti and I’m asking for your vote as Block 2 representative. I clearly represent a new direction for our union.
Happy Thanksgiving to you and your Family
Fraternally,
Vic Liberti
[email protected]
PLEASE VOTE OR CHANGE YOUR VOTE
Call
Call
1-888-647-1787
Or click on
https://www.ballotpoint.com/alpa/
https://www.ballotpoint.com/alpa/
Fellow Council 22 Members:
I’m Vic Liberti, and I am asking for your vote as Block 2 Representative.
As promised, this paper deals with my views on retirement plans, which is one of the key reasons I have decided to run for office. Thus far, we have failed to recognize the rapidly changing landscape concerning retirement issues. We have exhausted much time and effort on negotiating items like how the monthly bid is processed, and have neglected to place enough emphasis on this “bread and butter” issue. It is vital at this time that we refocus our efforts mainly on achieving the things that are vitally important to our financial security.
Allow me to provide a bit of historical information so that I can better make my point.
Until recently, defined benefit pensions (A-Plans) were to be a sure thing for American workers. If you worked long enough, you could count on a predetermined stream of income at retirement, backed by the government.
Now, however, a series of defined benefit pension failures at large companies like LTV Steel, UAL, Delta, Bethlehem Steel, Kaiser Aluminum, US Airways and Polaroid have cast doubt on such certainties. While the government insures pensions via the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation (PBGC), steelworkers, pilots, executives, managers and mechanics have all discovered that the pensions they earned are far richer than the insurance coverage provided by the PBGC; something they did not know until their pension plans had failed.
In the case of US Airways pilots, when the plan failed, they had about 33 cents for every dollar promised to pilots. Pilots 53 and older got to divide the remaining money in the plan while those under 53 got hosed. Those pilots under age 53 (I’m not exactly sure how age 53 was chosen) will only receive the PBGC maximum of approximately $32,000 per year when they retire at age 60 (or approximately $49,500 at age 65).
Who stands to lose if a plan fails?
US Airways’ misfortunes raise important questions for millions of workers and retirees who participate in defined benefit pension plans. Highly compensated workers such as pilots (and/or those with a generous defined benefit formula) stand to lose the most. Under the 2007 limits, the PBCG covers pension benefits of up to approximately $49,500 a year for individual participants who retire at age 65. This maximum increases annually with inflation. For pilots who must (or under new rules choose to) retire at age 60, the maximum is approximately $32,000 annually.
Dollars and Cents
Allow me to bring home this atrocity even further, using US Airways as an example. Let’s say a US Airway’s pilot got hired when he was 25. This pilot was a senior captain with 26 years of service at age 51, when his defined benefit plan was terminated.
US Airways had a large defined benefit formula. Pilots earned 65% of their final average earnings with 25 years of service and 70% of final average earnings for 30 years of service.
This pilot would have already earned a defined benefit pension of approximately $125,000 per year when he reached age 60. Now, stay with me on this…HE ALREADY EARNED THIS MONEY… he worked for it for 26 years. But because he was under 53, he will only receive the PBGC maximum of approximately $32,000 per year at age 60 and several thousand less if he elects a joint and survivor benefit.
From an expected $125,000 to $32,000 at 60
That’s what happens when your A-Plan is distress terminated.
Could it Happen Here?
In 2000, US Airway’s plan was fully funded; by 2003, they had to terminate it. Delta was fully funded in 2000 and was terminated due to lack of funds within 5 to 6 years. It was the same story elsewhere folks, and it gets worse. We assume the PBGC will continue to have sufficient funds to continue paying off these terminated plans. This is not a certainty.
The PBGC is an independently run quasi-government entity and does not receive any government funding.
It would have to reduce benefits in the future if these defined benefit plans continue to be terminated. As a result, our A Plan is very much a promise to pay, not a guarantee.
I hope I have clearly demonstrated to you that defined benefit plans face significant challenges. While it could be said (and has been said) that our current plan is fine, the sobering reality is that it could turn on a dime. It is my considered opinion that the priorities set at the beginning of the negotiating process failed to evolve over time with regard to this vitally important issue.
So What Do We Do?
Let’s look at a pilot hired at FedEx at age 30 who starts to receive credits in his/her A-Plan and is vested in 5 years. What FedEx is insinuating to that pilot is that it will survive as a corporate entity for 60 or 70 years and be able to pay this pilot a defined benefit pension. And in lieu of that, the PBGC will be there to pay a portion of his/her hard earned pension if the company cannot. That doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me.
I would argue for a solution that places the pilot in control of as much of his/her retirement benefits as possible. This could be accomplished by re-balancing our defined benefit, (A-plan) and defined contribution (B-Plan) mix so as to de-emphasize the A-Plan and increase the B-Plan. UPS has embraced such an approach, by instituting a 13% B-plan in combination with a smaller A-plan. This mix has more retirement money being controlled solely by the pilot and is in the pilot’s name.
For the senior pilots, I would fight to put provisions in the contract to protect their A-Plans because unlike the young guys, they have what they have. These provisions would include full or partial lump sum payments. Cost of living adjustments, subsidized joint and survivor benefits and an agreement with the company which would allow a union pilot to be seated on the pension oversight committee.
Thank you for taking the time to read this letter. I hope you found it helpful. Please consider these ideas when determining what direction you want this Union to take in the future when you cast your very important vote.
I’m Vic Liberti and I’m asking for your vote as Block 2 representative. I clearly represent a new direction for our union.
Happy Thanksgiving to you and your Family
Fraternally,
Vic Liberti
[email protected]
11-26-2007, 11:34 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 777 FO
Posts: 931
I love the idea. I'm young and I'm worried that my A plan won't be there 30 years from now. It's an uphill battle, however. ALPA (unions in general) are almost fanatical about DEFINED BENEFITS and I can't ever see them voluntarily altering the way our A plan works.
11-26-2007, 12:19 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,838
Originally Posted by Deuce130
I love the idea. I'm young and I'm worried that my A plan won't be there 30 years from now. It's an uphill battle, however. ALPA (unions in general) are almost fanatical about DEFINED BENEFITS and I can't ever see them voluntarily altering the way our A plan works.
11-26-2007, 01:35 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Originally Posted by RedeyeAV8r
Huhh??????? Seeing how the majority of ALPA carriers have had their pensions Distress terminated or Frozen........ I am not sure I follow your logic.
11-26-2007, 03:40 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,838
Originally Posted by FDXLAG
His point was they held on until it was too late.
Realize that Large B funds are often more expensive to the Company than A funds. Everything must be negotiated.
I trust our R & I folks, they have as much to lose as the rest of us.
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