Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

Welcome to Airline Pilot Forums - Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. Join our community today and start interacting with existing members. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free.


User Tag List

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-04-2008, 02:01 PM   #1  
Living the dream!
Thread Starter
 
R1200RT's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: MD-11 Capt
Posts: 915
Default Can the company cancel part of a bid?

I understand the company can cancel a bid, but how can they cancel part of a bid since it screws with seniority.
Example. and it is happening.

Lets say I'm a senior 727 FO and on the bid my first choice was ANC MD11 FO and my second choice was HKG CA. We'll I held ANC MD11 FO and someone junior to me got the HKG CA (far enough). Now the company has cancelled part of the bid and I'm stuck on the 727 and a junior person got HKG CA. Since the company is picking parts of the bid to cancel I get screwed. If they rebid the entire bid I could hold HKG CA.

You guys are much better with the contract than me. Does it say they can cancel part of a bid. I thought seniority was king.
R1200RT is offline  
Old 01-04-2008, 02:12 PM   #2  
Gets Weekends Off
 
FDXLAG's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 7,981
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R1200RT View Post
I understand the company can cancel a bid, but how can they cancel part of a bid since it screws with seniority.
Example. and it is happening.

Lets say I'm a senior 727 FO and on the bid my first choice was ANC MD11 FO and my second choice was HKG CA. We'll I held ANC MD11 FO and someone junior to me got the HKG CA (far enough). Now the company has cancelled part of the bid and I'm stuck on the 727 and a junior person got HKG CA. Since the company is picking parts of the bid to cancel I get screwed. If they rebid the entire bid I could hold HKG CA.

You guys are much better with the contract than me. Does it say they can cancel part of a bid. I thought seniority was king.
Yes they can:

Section 24.E.4

The Company may cancel an award/assignment of a crew position in reverse seniority order provided it does so at least 30 days prior to the pilot's scheduled training date. A pilot whose award/assignment is canceled may either remain in his current crew position, or exercise his seniority for an award or a vacancy posting that occurred between the date his crew position was awarded and the date it was canceled. He shall be eligible to receive passover pay:
FDXLAG is offline  
Old 01-04-2008, 02:29 PM   #3  
Gets Weekends Off
 
fedupbusdriver's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: A300/310 Capt
Posts: 1,636
Default

Sounds like you will be able to hold HKG CA on this bid. Pack your bags!!!!
fedupbusdriver is offline  
Old 01-04-2008, 02:30 PM   #4  
Gets Weekends Off
 
kwri10s's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 407
Default

So does that mean that anyone whose bid was canceled can now take anyones bid who was junior to them that had a bid that was not canceled?
kwri10s is offline  
Old 01-04-2008, 02:31 PM   #5  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Albief15's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 2,626
Default

Discussion on another board about this--concensus is what the company is doing is legal. MEC input was request to not cancel the bid, but when you run the numbers, moving guys from back seat to left seat actually creates few training cycles (i.e. money) than the standard musical chairs where everyone moves up a seat. Someone smarter than me ran numbers and said something about 266 or so training cycles verses 436.

My anger is simply that the retro policy was sold as having "minimal impact", and was done without a crew force mandate. Its here--we'll deal with the fallout--but I would argue the impact on just about all of us is far from minimal.

Water under the bridge. Time to work on issues we can have an impact on. This one is done.
Albief15 is offline  
Old 01-04-2008, 02:45 PM   #6  
Gets Weekends Off
 
JethroFDX's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B767 Capt.
Posts: 605
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Albief15 View Post
Someone smarter than me ran numbers and said something about 266 or so training cycles verses 436.
Kids doing your homework again Albie? They can help you with the FMS stuff too when you decide to leave the Boeing.

Cheap shot I know. I'll refer myself to Pro-stan and fill out a work sheet on myself.
JethroFDX is offline  
Old 01-04-2008, 02:54 PM   #7  
APC co-founder
 
HSLD's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: B-777-200
Posts: 5,728
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R1200RT View Post
I understand the company can cancel a bid, but how can they cancel part of a bid since it screws with seniority.

and someone junior to me got the HKG CA (far enough).

If they rebid the entire bid I could hold HKG CA.

I thought seniority was king.
If they cancel in reverse seniority order, wouldn't the Jr. pilot's bid be canceled too? I'm guessing that your contract has the ability to place a contingency bid (i.e. activate if you can hold a certain percentile relative fleet/seat seniority on that bid)? If not it doesn't sound like a cancellation in reverse seniority order.

From the sidelines.....
HSLD is offline  
Old 01-04-2008, 03:09 PM   #8  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Albief15's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 2,626
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JethroFDX View Post
Kids doing your homework again Albie? They can help you with the FMS stuff too when you decide to leave the Boeing.

Cheap shot I know. I'll refer myself to Pro-stan and fill out a work sheet on myself.
Just get me a bus slot and we'll call it even...

I got my Bose X's two years ago. I can hang a while if I have to...
Albief15 is offline  
Old 01-04-2008, 03:29 PM   #9  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Toccata's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: DC10 Captain
Posts: 284
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FDXLAG View Post
Yes they can:

Section 24.E.4

The Company may cancel an award/assignment of a crew position in reverse seniority order provided it does so at least 30 days prior to the pilot's scheduled training date. A pilot whose award/assignment is canceled may either remain in his current crew position, or exercise his seniority for an award or a vacancy posting that occurred between the date his crew position was awarded and the date it was canceled. He shall be eligible to receive passover pay:
If I'm reading this correctly, you will get the Captain's slot, and also be eligible for passover pay when the guy junior to you gets activated.

That sound right to the experts here?
Toccata is offline  
Old 01-04-2008, 04:18 PM   #10  
Gets Weekends Off
 
FDXLAG's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 7,981
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata View Post
If I'm reading this correctly, you will get the Captain's slot, and also be eligible for passover pay when the guy junior to you gets activated.

That sound right to the experts here?
Nope it has to be a vacancy posting since your bid award not the same one as your bid award.
FDXLAG is offline  
 
 
 

 
Post Reply
 



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Company Tactics for Busting Union Drives... Jack Bauer Union Talk 16 12-15-2007 12:17 PM
Scope Enhancement - For The Company?? Toccata Cargo 2 08-09-2007 09:40 AM
fellow FexEx fellas jack Cargo 25 01-23-2006 08:57 PM
FLYi, Inc. Files for Voluntary Chapter 11 Reorganization FlyerJosh Major 8 11-09-2005 04:33 AM
The long, dark walk... LAfrequentflyer Hangar Talk 1 10-17-2005 12:52 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:20 AM.