Confused on IPA’s stance
01-16-2008, 10:42 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 1 ft out the door
Posts: 113
FP,
You are correct; I actually don't have "sympathy" but understand their pitiful arguments. I actually had a guy going through SO basic indoc. who out of bitterness (I suppose), leaned over and said to me, “I heard there’s going to “F” soon”, then leaned back to his seat with a grin of pride and accomplishment on his face. I felt pity for a man of 60 years who wished harm on others for his own personal benefit. As if he didn’t know 20 years ago after his air force retirement that he would turn 60 one day and undergo a life change.
As for a displacement, the only real benefit to the company would be to split the pilot group further. The Gz are not more productive, are not paid less, are not recovered without training cost and so, the only real value to the company is pilot fragmentation.
To the union, 1.5% of 300k is better than 1.5% of 120K…
You are correct; I actually don't have "sympathy" but understand their pitiful arguments. I actually had a guy going through SO basic indoc. who out of bitterness (I suppose), leaned over and said to me, “I heard there’s going to “F” soon”, then leaned back to his seat with a grin of pride and accomplishment on his face. I felt pity for a man of 60 years who wished harm on others for his own personal benefit. As if he didn’t know 20 years ago after his air force retirement that he would turn 60 one day and undergo a life change.
As for a displacement, the only real benefit to the company would be to split the pilot group further. The Gz are not more productive, are not paid less, are not recovered without training cost and so, the only real value to the company is pilot fragmentation.
To the union, 1.5% of 300k is better than 1.5% of 120K…
01-16-2008, 11:52 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
... I actually had a guy going through SO basic indoc. who out of bitterness (I suppose), leaned over and said to me, “I heard there’s going to “F” soon”, then leaned back to his seat with a grin of pride and accomplishment on his face...
Wow, what a jerk! I'd have said, "I heard for someone like you even Cialis won't work!"
…As for a displacement, the only real benefit to the company would be to split the pilot group further…
Absolutely - every airline management’s dream! I could see the union splitting into two; maybe even a USAirways scenario where some pilots would vote to be represented by a different union. Those are all worst case scenarios of course and like I said I don't think it'll happen however anything is possible.
Wow, what a jerk! I'd have said, "I heard for someone like you even Cialis won't work!"
…As for a displacement, the only real benefit to the company would be to split the pilot group further…
Absolutely - every airline management’s dream! I could see the union splitting into two; maybe even a USAirways scenario where some pilots would vote to be represented by a different union. Those are all worst case scenarios of course and like I said I don't think it'll happen however anything is possible.
01-17-2008, 12:57 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 1 ft out the door
Posts: 113
I was being very polite and friendly to the fellow indicating only how thankful I was to be in training. I was interested in his air force accomplishments and the equipment he had flown and in no way demonstrated or indicated I thought his best days were over. I did show an amazement that after such a long flight career that he would prefer to still fly/work as an SO over do what he wanted when he wanted. I’m still amazed…especially since he had an Air Force retirement with paid health benefits and pension.
01-17-2008, 01:28 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
…I’m still amazed…especially since he had an Air Force retirement with paid health benefits and pension…
Personally I always felt that the military health benefits, pension plans, etc. should never be brought up in any pay/retirement comparisons because frankly they deserved even more than what they got for serving our country. Some people will say, well, on top of their regular retirement they're also getting the military retirement, etc. However, one could also say that if it wasn't for their military commitment – a service which benefited all of us - their overall retirement benefits would’ve been a whole lot bigger as they'd have spent an extra 10, 15, or 20 years on an airline’s seniority list. Either way - military retirements are well deserved and personally I wish they were paid much more than they are.
...I was being very polite and friendly to the fellow indicating only how thankful I was to be in training. I was interested in his air force accomplishments and the equipment he had flown and in no way demonstrated or indicated I thought his best days were over...
In this case it sounds like you ran into a jerk, that’s all. I can’t tell if you’re fairly new or not (me 2+ years) but surely you must have noticed this guy’s an exception to the rule. The vast majority of the pilots here are absolutely great and I hope you and I and the rest of us won’t have to run into people with his attitude here very often. Heck, just look at the 40K+ all of us collected for the new hire fighting stomach cancer! – things like that make me proud to be a part of this group.
Personally I always felt that the military health benefits, pension plans, etc. should never be brought up in any pay/retirement comparisons because frankly they deserved even more than what they got for serving our country. Some people will say, well, on top of their regular retirement they're also getting the military retirement, etc. However, one could also say that if it wasn't for their military commitment – a service which benefited all of us - their overall retirement benefits would’ve been a whole lot bigger as they'd have spent an extra 10, 15, or 20 years on an airline’s seniority list. Either way - military retirements are well deserved and personally I wish they were paid much more than they are.
...I was being very polite and friendly to the fellow indicating only how thankful I was to be in training. I was interested in his air force accomplishments and the equipment he had flown and in no way demonstrated or indicated I thought his best days were over...
In this case it sounds like you ran into a jerk, that’s all. I can’t tell if you’re fairly new or not (me 2+ years) but surely you must have noticed this guy’s an exception to the rule. The vast majority of the pilots here are absolutely great and I hope you and I and the rest of us won’t have to run into people with his attitude here very often. Heck, just look at the 40K+ all of us collected for the new hire fighting stomach cancer! – things like that make me proud to be a part of this group.
01-17-2008, 05:12 AM
#15
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
Originally Posted by ⌐ AV8OR WANNABE
So I wouldn't say "Don't think so!" quite yet because very soon they might be saying "yes we do think so!"
True. I didn't mean it that way. Obviously, it can happen. My point was was that it's ridiculous to just give these guys everything they want and it's ridiculous for them to want the world at the expense of everyone else. But I guess it's part of the ME ME ME generation. Obviously it's up to the company on what happens, but I pray for vacancy, not displacement. If that happens and there are only ANC slots open, I don't feel sorry for the retreads. If they want to be flying, they will need to go there. Why should they just get everything THEY want and possibly force some captains back to FO? What about those guys? I do agree that the company would be able to split us over this by doing a displacement. I know I would be pretty peeved.
01-17-2008, 05:15 AM
#16
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
Originally Posted by Vman
FP,
You are correct; I actually don't have "sympathy" but understand their pitiful arguments. I actually had a guy going through SO basic indoc. who out of bitterness (I suppose), leaned over and said to me, “I heard there’s going to “F” soon”, then leaned back to his seat with a grin of pride and accomplishment on his face. I felt pity for a man of 60 years who wished harm on others for his own personal benefit. As if he didn’t know 20 years ago after his air force retirement that he would turn 60 one day and undergo a life change.
As for a displacement, the only real benefit to the company would be to split the pilot group further. The Gz are not more productive, are not paid less, are not recovered without training cost and so, the only real value to the company is pilot fragmentation.
To the union, 1.5% of 300k is better than 1.5% of 120K…
You are correct; I actually don't have "sympathy" but understand their pitiful arguments. I actually had a guy going through SO basic indoc. who out of bitterness (I suppose), leaned over and said to me, “I heard there’s going to “F” soon”, then leaned back to his seat with a grin of pride and accomplishment on his face. I felt pity for a man of 60 years who wished harm on others for his own personal benefit. As if he didn’t know 20 years ago after his air force retirement that he would turn 60 one day and undergo a life change.
As for a displacement, the only real benefit to the company would be to split the pilot group further. The Gz are not more productive, are not paid less, are not recovered without training cost and so, the only real value to the company is pilot fragmentation.
To the union, 1.5% of 300k is better than 1.5% of 120K…
01-17-2008, 05:20 AM
#17
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
Originally Posted by ⌐ AV8OR WANNABE
[COLOR=black]Personally I always felt that the military health benefits, pension plans, etc. should never be brought up in any pay/retirement comparisons because frankly they deserved even more than what they got for serving our country. Some people will say, well, on top of their regular retirement they're also getting the military retirement, etc. However, one could also say that if it wasn't for their military commitment – a service which benefited all of us - their overall retirement benefits would’ve been a whole lot bigger as they'd have spent an extra 10, 15, or 20 years on an airline’s seniority list. Either way - military retirements are well deserved and personally I wish they were paid much more than they are.
I see what you are saying and up until the other day, I would agree with you 100%. Until I had a conversation with my future father in law who was in the Army years ago about this. You know what he said? Going into the military is a CHOICE. You do sacrifice a lot but you also chose to go in. Your flying is paid for as well. There are advantages and disadvantages to both (mil. and civ.) but there is no doubt, going into the military is a CHOICE in the US. I do think that their military retirement should be a large amount though.
01-17-2008, 05:23 AM
#18
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
Originally Posted by ⌐ AV8OR WANNABE
Heck, just look at the 40K+ all of us collected for the new hire fighting stomach cancer! – things like that make me proud to be a part of this group.
01-17-2008, 10:28 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: F/O
Posts: 328
Representatives of the Association presented a staffing analysis of the airline today to members of UPS management. "We believe the Company should aggressively post vacancies to accommodate scheduled aircraft deliveries," said IPA President Bob Miller.
The explanation I was told was that the union is asking the company to open the vacancies for the 767s that we are getting in 09. This will allow the company to get ahead in the training for once, keep the old guys happy, keep the younger guys from getting displaced. The negative for the company is they will be fat on these fleets.
Personally, i think they should have to wait for a vacancy as the contract states.
r
The explanation I was told was that the union is asking the company to open the vacancies for the 767s that we are getting in 09. This will allow the company to get ahead in the training for once, keep the old guys happy, keep the younger guys from getting displaced. The negative for the company is they will be fat on these fleets.
Personally, i think they should have to wait for a vacancy as the contract states.
r
01-17-2008, 11:48 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 266
Originally Posted by Freightpuppy
I see what you are saying and up until the other day, I would agree with you 100%. Until I had a conversation with my future father in law who was in the Army years ago about this. You know what he said? Going into the military is a CHOICE. You do sacrifice a lot but you also chose to go in. Your flying is paid for as well. There are advantages and disadvantages to both (mil. and civ.) but there is no doubt, going into the military is a CHOICE in the US. I do think that their military retirement should be a large amount though.
B2P
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