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-   -   not taking résumés, not hiring: why UPS @ job fair? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/cargo/21297-not-taking-resumes-not-hiring-why-ups-job-fair.html)

Haus 01-20-2008 12:48 PM

not taking résumés, not hiring: why UPS @ job fair?
 
[Saw today's thread in Cargo section asking UPS formatting questions for job fair résumés. Reminded me to ask the following & didn't want to hijack their post. More appropriate here than Hiring News forum; didn't see it covered in Freight Dog's UPS hiring Q&A.]

Why is UPS attending the AIR Inc. job fair Jan 26, etc.?

Since Aug07 or before, I'm told HR's policy's to not accept physical résumés. They may glance at your paper, but now hand it back, advising to do everything online. They generally say the web-based system doesn't allow viewing an applicant's file/résumé until 'the computer' recommends an interviewee.

That's when the hiring window's open; it's currently closed ... 800 241 2357.

Their admirable intent's consistency - not taking any résumés - yet I hear Brown's the only company at job fairs to personally tell you they can't take papers. I guess similar companies not taking résumés or especially not hiring usually leave it to their website/ e-mail/ phones to answer questions. The resulting inconsistency seems to raise attendees' expectations when they see UPS on a job fair list. Just one scenario: applicants who haven't been satisfied with ups.managehr.com & hope that going out of their way to speak to HR face-to-face will give an advantage - arguably job fairs' purpose through the years.

I've had otherwise-enthusiastic applicants ask why Brown may be the only major there not taking résumés. I've even heard from those who didn't stand in the UPS queue, yet noticed that was the only line where wanna-bes left carrying résumés.

Put yourself in the shoes of those who attend only for Brown, not forgetting the pay at the job they presumably want to leave, + the multiple hotel rooms & flights some pay everytime they see UPS listed, & I can understand. AIR Inc's nowhere near the cheapest, especially if attending their multiple annual fairs I think Brown's been at. Time & money away from your family probably feels better when any recruiter takes the paper with your name on it, even if it goes in the garbage as soon as you turn your back.

I could say that Brown's not technically there to recruit, but that raises the circular question: why do they attend?
Why shouldn't UPS applicants just stay with their family (& computer) at home, since HR's policy seems to be consistently telling everyone to apply online, & that they can't accept items at job fairs?
Please help me with a better answer for these well-intended folks. Thanks in advance.

brownie 01-20-2008 02:00 PM

What do you exactly suggest those mng pilots do? some how they should claim thier existance. We're not hiring for 08 and there are 3 of them showing up for job fair, maybe they're running out of bs around the campus here and it's your turn to get we get all yr around for a day. Don't waist your time, resume, ticket,and hotel on these guys. They have no clue what goes on around here on a daily bases and they will tell you things that they have no control or even better truth to it. Hate to say this but that is SOP at brown.

bifff15 01-20-2008 02:24 PM

There is no way to predict what will happen at Brown this year with age 65, displacements off the classic 747, and 12 widebodies showing up. The first of 27 more jets show up in 2009. I don't think there is anyone who can or will tell you for sure. With that in mind you have to decide whether or not to go to the job fair.
Don't go:
1. UPS decides to hire. You didn't go. To the back of the line. Money not spent. Job not gained.
2. UPS decides not to hire. Money not spent.
Go:
1. UPS decides to hire. You were the last one they met before starting the hiring up again. What's that worth?
2. UPS decides not to hire. Money wasted if the only company you want to work for is UPS.
You have to decide for yourself if it's worth it. Trolling in here will only get you options.
Good luck!

sqwkvfr 01-20-2008 02:34 PM

They're looking for couriers and figured that there'd be some regional FOs there.

Unknown Rider 01-20-2008 02:37 PM


Originally Posted by brownie (Post 304158)
What do you exactly suggest those mng pilots do? some how they should claim thier existance. We're not hiring for 08 and there are 3 of them showing up for job fair, maybe they're running out of bs around the campus here and it's your turn to get we get all yr around for a day. Don't waist your time, resume, ticket,and hotel on these guys. They have no clue what goes on around here on a daily bases and they will tell you things that they have no control or even better truth to it. Hate to say this but that is SOP at brown.


It's a good thing there's no law against posting under the influence. Hopefully that's the case here. If not, you should contact the University where you received your degree and ask for your money back.

⌐ AV8OR WANNABE 01-20-2008 03:05 PM

Haus – sorry you’re getting discouraged about the application process at Big Brown. At a previous airline I used to attend many job fairs both as a recruiter and later also when I was looking for a job myself. I agree with you that AirInc is not the cheapest, nor is it the best job fair out there in my humble opinion.

I think your expectations might be a little bit high though; remember it’s just a job fair, not an interview. Is it expensive? You bet ya, I know first hand, attended numerous AirInc and Women-in-Aviation seminars (open to men too :)) for several years before that dream job finally materialized.

As a matter of fact, if they gave me just one tiny share of the lucrative AirInc Incorporated for each time I attended a seminar, I’d a major stockholder in AirInc by now. ;)

They are not accepting resumes because frankly they don’t need them; pure and simple. The information they do need is available to them online. The whole idea of switching to an online system was to avoid the resume backlog they had from people mailing them in, faxing them in, co-mailing them in, having friends “walk them in,” etc, etc. JetBlue was the first airline to switch to an online system and for long time they did not accept resumes at job seminars either, not sure what they do now.

Either way, if you do have a question about your application they WILL try to help you out. I told my friends to bring a copy of their resume AND a printout copy of their online application. This way, if you made an error or if some information is missing or is incorrect, they’ll help you out.

However, merely attending a seminar probably won’t help you to get an interview, at least not right now as we’re not even hiring.

I think they’re attending simply because it was scheduled months and months in advance and since they already paid all the fees and the hotel costs, it’d pointless to cancel now. Also, hiring plans are usually made months and months in advance so maybe they’re just planning for later part of this year? Who knows?

Personally I think it’ll take at least 6 months or maybe more before UPS figures out how to deal with the age 65 rule and first then will they be able to decide how many more pilots, if any, they might be needing in the near future.

So my advice is, if you have some extra money and spare time - go to a seminar because you never know.
However, if you’re short on cash right now, hold off with the job fair, you’re probably wasting your money at this point.


Good luck to you and please do not give up – you’ll just have to stay positive, keep trying and it’ll happen.

mooseflyer 01-21-2008 09:47 PM

I, too, have been trying to decide if airfare, hotel, entry fee, and a lost weekend is worth it since no hiring is going on. Ater all, if they're not accepting resumes, how will they even remember I've been there in the first place? (aside from my charming personality ha ha). Since I'm not considering leaving my current job for anyone else attending the job fair, there really is no other point in going.

I really only need the answer to one question anyway - If I tubed the online assesment last summer, am I SOL for good? One year? TBD?

vagabond 01-21-2008 09:52 PM

Is it not possible to write off job search expenses in your tax return? You know, that little piece on Schedule A of your Form 1040? If I were your representative, I could make an argument that going to job fairs is but one way to look for a job. Just a thought for those sitting on the fence and using itemized deduction instead of the standard deduction.

⌐ AV8OR WANNABE 01-21-2008 10:02 PM


Originally Posted by mooseflyer (Post 304891)
... Ater all, if they're not accepting resumes, how will they even remember I've been there in the first place? (aside from my charming personality ha ha)....

When I got the call, they did remember me and even joked that it was nice to see me "again." Of course, I'd been to "several" job fairs so they probably got fed up with seeing my ugly face over and over again and figured they might as well just hire me. I was OK with that! ;)

Vman 01-22-2008 01:29 AM

There is no substitute for networking...

bifff15 01-22-2008 01:31 AM


Originally Posted by mooseflyer (Post 304891)

I really only need the answer to one question anyway - If I tubed the online assesment last summer, am I SOL for good? One year? TBD?

How did you tube the online assessment? If by that you mean you didn't meet requirements then you won't get called (my opinion). However, if you are able to update the online assessment to meet the requirements then I think your status in the system would change.

If the only companies you want to work for are FDX or UPS and one or both are going to be at Air Inc then go. And yes, you can write it off as a job hunting expense on your taxes along with the suit, rental car, meals, etc.

bifff15 01-22-2008 01:33 AM


Originally Posted by Vman (Post 304926)
There is no substitute for networking...

VMAN check your inbox, I sent you a PM.

navigatro 01-22-2008 04:43 AM

[quote=bifff15;304927]How did you tube the online assessment? If by that you mean you didn't meet requirements then you won't get called (my opinion).


I think mooseflyer means he failed the online psychological test (MMPI) that UPS send to you prior to the call for an interview. Correct me if I am wrong, Moose.

Tigerpilot1995 01-22-2008 08:30 AM

That is the online assessment.

atpwannabe 01-22-2008 08:50 AM

It could be another way of physically screening an applicant. Not sure what the point would be if that is the case, but you never know.


atp

bifff15 01-22-2008 12:43 PM

[QUOTE=navigatro;304947]

Originally Posted by bifff15 (Post 304927)
How did you tube the online assessment? If by that you mean you didn't meet requirements then you won't get called (my opinion).


I think mooseflyer means he failed the online psychological test (MMPI) that UPS send to you prior to the call for an interview. Correct me if I am wrong, Moose.

Okay, unregard everything I said!

Over and out!

FliFast 01-22-2008 07:50 PM

Meet people, make a favorable impression above the other 400 guys/gals in their blue suits and red ties...and network.

I have heard rumblings that the hiring numbers may need to be increased for this year. I go to recurrent training at the mothership next month..maybe more info to follow.

FF

ps...UPS likes the color brown.

⌐ AV8OR WANNABE 01-22-2008 09:53 PM


Originally Posted by FliFast (Post 305518)
ps...UPS likes the color brown.

Hmm, I wouldn’t overdo it though…maybe a brown tie but that’s about it in my opinion…I know a guy who interviewed on the same day I did. He looked like he was a UPS employee already but he didn't get the job after all..

Heck I don't know, the main thing is to be persistent so I'd say go and give it a try...

Konnichiwa

Vman 01-22-2008 10:31 PM


Originally Posted by atpwannabe (Post 305043)
It could be another way of physically screening an applicant. Not sure what the point would be if that is the case, but you never know.


atp

It’s not physical! The test is from a computer...it’s psychological. A finger up your ___, now that’s physical. You could, however, consider the test as a “physical” computer operator test, but I wouldn’t. Of course it's a screen!

McBoeingBus 01-22-2008 11:48 PM

Do any of you guys have any insight into hiring for the next year or two? "They" said that "they" were talking to Warren in HR and was underthe impression that there would be minimal hiring for 08 and picking up again in 09. Any confirmation?

MBB

mooseflyer 01-23-2008 03:02 AM

[quote=navigatro;304947]

Originally Posted by bifff15 (Post 304927)
How did you tube the online assessment? If by that you mean you didn't meet requirements then you won't get called (my opinion).


I think mooseflyer means he failed the online psychological test (MMPI) that UPS send to you prior to the call for an interview. Correct me if I am wrong, Moose.


Correct you are.

Brown tie - I like it! Just have to raid ol' granddads wardrobe and I'm all set.......

bifff15 01-23-2008 03:36 AM


Originally Posted by McBoeingBus (Post 305610)
Do any of you guys have any insight into hiring for the next year or two? "They" said that "they" were talking to Warren in HR and was underthe impression that there would be minimal hiring for 08 and picking up again in 09. Any confirmation?

MBB

That was last week, this is this week and next week it will be something else. The company is very secretive regards everything so if it is known they aren't saying. The company recently put out information on contract clarification regards the age 65 rule change. That may or may not induce hiring depending on what vacancies are published. The union stance is we are undermanned for what we already have yet we are getting 12 more widebodies this year (7x747-400 and 5xMD-11). I don't know what our manning for each seat is (Bueller, Bueller, anyone want to chime in) so I'm unable to do the math on bodies required. We are in the middle of closing down the classic 747 fleet which involves quit a few displacements. It's unknown if one will offset the other.
It's a matter of time before we start hiring. Use the tools / logic presented above and elsewhere on this site, as well as intel gleaned from your buddies already on the property to build as an accurate picture as possible. Use that information to base your decisions whether it's to go to an Air Inc show or start studying for an interview (interviewees should be VERY well versed on ALL aspects of UPS, not just the aviation portion).
Fly safe!

FliFast 01-23-2008 01:56 PM


Originally Posted by ⌐ AV8OR WANNABE (Post 305585)
Hmm, I wouldn’t overdo it though…maybe a brown tie but that’s about it in my opinion…I know a guy who interviewed on the same day I did. He looked like he was a UPS employee already but he didn't get the job after all..

Heck I don't know, the main thing is to be persistent so I'd say go and give it a try...

Konnichiwa

Hey AV8OR !!!

I don't think wearing something different than the traditional Banker Suit, blue suit, white shirt, and red tie is over doing it....but if you see how I dress anything is an improvement.

I wore to my UPS interview a brown tie, an orange shirt, and brown shoes. I even received a few compliments on it, even though I looked like the Great Pumpkin.

Anywayz, I think at job fairs the idea is to stand out. I think a megadeath t-shirt is probably over doing it, but something other than the usual cookie cutter blue suit might help.

Anywayz, back on track with the original thread...the job fair, etc.

Konbanwa -and- Sayonara

FF

⌐ AV8OR WANNABE 01-23-2008 06:36 PM

I don't think wearing something different than the traditional Banker Suit, blue suit, white shirt, and red tie is over doing it....but if you see how I dress anything is an improvement.
...
I wore to my UPS interview a brown tie, an orange shirt, and brown shoes. I even received a few compliments on it, even though I looked like the Great Pumpkin.

Ok next time I'm at Humpies I'll be looking for the Great Pumking in the crowd or for someone who's standing out… oh, wait, that'd be sort of pointless in Alaska wouldn't it? ;)

...I think a megadeath t-shirt is probably over doing it, but something other than the usual cookie cutter blue suit might help...

I don't know, FreightGuppy might disagree with you on that one.. :D

Btw, I was at Humpies three days ago hoping to run into some ANC brownies but I didn't see anyone wearing the UPS leather jacket. Once I got back to Marriott it hit me - duh! most ANC brownies are new hires and thus have no free leather jackets! Stupid me.

Seriously, do y'all usually sit at a specific table or what's the easiest way to spot one of you there?

Sayonara my friend

Jetpilot 01-23-2008 06:50 PM

They don't go there anymore, they go home instead.... Since they're all domiciled in ANC now....

Freightpuppy 01-24-2008 06:43 AM


Originally Posted by brownie (Post 304158)
What do you exactly suggest those mng pilots do? some how they should claim thier existance. We're not hiring for 08 and there are 3 of them showing up for job fair, maybe they're running out of bs around the campus here and it's your turn to get we get all yr around for a day. Don't waist your time, resume, ticket,and hotel on these guys. They have no clue what goes on around here on a daily bases and they will tell you things that they have no control or even better truth to it. Hate to say this but that is SOP at brown.

Brownie,
I think your posts are cute and funny and I love the avatar. But if it's so terrible, why do you WASTE your own time working here? If someone wants to work here, they need to do anything they can to get the job. You are telling someone not to waste their time yet UPS is one of the best airline jobs out there. Make some sense please. Thanks.

Freightpuppy 01-24-2008 06:48 AM


Originally Posted by Haus (Post 304117)

1. Time & money away from your family probably feels better when any recruiter takes the paper with your name on it, even if it goes in the garbage as soon as you turn your back.

2. Why shouldn't UPS applicants just stay with their family (& computer) at home, since HR's policy seems to be consistently telling everyone to apply online, & that they can't accept items at job fairs?

1. Maybe so but if you're looking for a company that truly cares about your time spent with family, you may be on the wrong career track. HR is not there to make you feel good, they are there for the company, not you.

2. I can understand the frustration but if you choose not to attend, don't complain later when you never get a call. IMO, it's not worth it NOT to attend. UPS seems to change their hiring practices at the drop of a hat and you just never know when they might start taking resumes and calling job fair attendees.

I went to TONS of job fairs and it was frustrating being blown off (Shoot! I was sucking up to Phil D. at job fairs from the time I had 1500 TT and no PIC) but in the end it was well worth it.

Freightpuppy 01-24-2008 06:52 AM


Originally Posted by FliFast (Post 305926)
I think a megadeath t-shirt is probably over doing it, but something other than the usual cookie cutter blue suit might help.



FF

LOL! Dude! If I was a recruiter and someone came to a job fair with a Megadeth shirt on, I'd hire them on the spot! Of course, I am a die hard metal fan.....LOL!

Beernuts 01-25-2008 10:22 AM

So are there any poolies out there getting class dates?

bifff15 01-25-2008 10:41 AM


Originally Posted by Beernuts (Post 307078)
So are there any poolies out there getting class dates?

..........

Moondog 01-25-2008 10:49 AM

Just a treadin'

FIIGMO 01-25-2008 10:58 AM

Im still swimming too!

V-STALL 01-25-2008 11:47 AM

:eek::eek::eek:

Twin Wasp 01-26-2008 07:02 PM

Sharnika Chandler was at the DFW job fair and gave a stand up saying UPS wasn't planning any 2008 hiring and if there was any hiring, it would out of the current pool, for what that's worth. Didn't go talk to them, well, because they're not hiring.

mooseflyer 01-26-2008 10:36 PM

Thanks for the update TW. I guess I'm glad I saved the $$$ now. Sigh......

brownie 01-27-2008 07:05 AM

I rest my case.

CactusCrew 01-27-2008 11:20 AM

More of the same ...
 
As much as I hate to say it, UPS may be have reached the end of its 3rd hiring cycle. Historically speaking, UPS hires then completely stops for a few years ...

First time they hired HUNDREDS in a year, then paused. In recent times they will hire controllable numbers, and then pause again ...

Factors causing this pause ... age 65, and the retirement of 3 man a/c over the next 5 years. The 747 classic will be gone by this time next year. The DC-8 will EVENTUALLY be phased out through 2013 (subject to business needs, of course).

Won't be the first time I hung out at the bottom of a seniority list for years at the end of a hiring cycle, it just better be the last ! At least in that same historical timeline, UPS has never ACTUALLY furloughed either.

Furlough threats don't count either. Because the time that I actually did get furloughed, there was no prepatory threat from management, it just happened. Lots of other places along the path have used the threat ... FWIW.

All is just my opinion ... YMMV. ;)

Later, Brown CC

SEGATAKI 01-27-2008 11:47 AM

This is from one of the managers who represented UPS at the job fair in DFW this past weekend. I have known Leon since 1970, and we were at TWA together during the 80's. He informed me that UPS had committed to the job fair prior to the age 65 rule passing and the company did not want to back out of that commitment. Hiring this year will be dependent upon the number of ANC vacancies being filled by awarded bids and displacements and by the number of over 60 crew members bidding those open vacancies. Until this is resolved there will be no new hires in 2008.

⌐ AV8OR WANNABE 01-28-2008 04:43 AM


Originally Posted by SEGATAKI (Post 308316)
... Hiring this year will be dependent upon the number of ANC vacancies being filled by awarded bids and displacements and by the number of over 60 crew members bidding those open vacancies. Until this is resolved there will be no new hires in 2008.

So are displacements a certain thing or will they try to stick to vacancy bids only?

⌐ AV8OR WANNABE 01-28-2008 04:47 AM


Originally Posted by Twin Wasp (Post 307885)
... Didn't go talk to them, well, because they're not hiring.

TW - if you're spending the big bucks it never hurts to come by to say hi to all the airlines - they might remember you when hiring resumes. Just my take on it… Good luck to you with your job search.


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