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Old 01-28-2008, 08:19 AM   #1
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Default Over 60 can't land?

Just read the block 6 update from the union, and apparently the faa has issued an opinion "... suggesting the over-60 age pilot shouldn’t be at the controls of the aircraft during critical phases of flight..."

I did a quick search on the faa site and saw nothing.

Would like to see the source document on this before getting too opinionated.

Has anyone seen this as official from the FAA??
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Old 01-28-2008, 08:23 AM   #2
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Gonna be ugly when both pilots of an airplane are over 60.
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Old 01-28-2008, 08:32 AM   #3
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There go the RFO lines. I hope they can still see well enough to sort the catering.
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Old 01-28-2008, 08:32 AM   #4
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I got that update too! Maybe Albie traded me to block 6 for a member to be named later.
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Old 01-28-2008, 08:38 AM   #5
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Is there a difference between AT the controls vs. ON the controls?
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Old 01-28-2008, 08:39 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FDXLAG View Post
I got that update too! Maybe Albie traded me to block 6 for a member to be named later.
He said member....
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Old 01-28-2008, 08:46 AM   #7
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See what you can do when you want to "slip something" by the censors. But I consider most of the 3500 dudes senior to me to be members.
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:06 AM   #8
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:07 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eFDeeeX View Post
Just read the block 6 update from the union, and apparently the faa has issued an opinion "... suggesting the over-60 age pilot shouldn’t be at the controls of the aircraft during critical phases of flight..."

I did a quick search on the faa site and saw nothing.

Would like to see the source document on this before getting too opinionated.

Has anyone seen this as official from the FAA??
Either the FAA has misread what ICAO has said or ALPA has misread what the FAA has said.

ICAO's standard for age 65 requires ONE pilot to be under the age of 60. The question was "What about three or four pilot crews?". The answer was that ONE pilot had to be under age 60. The other two or three could be age over age 60. It is suggested, not required, that one of the pilots in the left or right seats for T/O or Landing should be under age 60.

ICAO did not believe the over/under rule was necesssary when they went to age 65 but accepted it as a political compromise. The JAA went to age 65 long before ICAO and used the over/under rule.

HR4343 only requires US airlines to comply with over/under for international flights. HR 4343 allows both pilots to be over age 60 on domestic flights. HR4343 also ends the over/under rule for international flights if ICAO ever drops the over/under standard.


Age limit for flight crew

Amendment 167 to Annex 1

The ICAO Council adopted on 10 March 2006 an amendment to Annex 1 — Personnel Licensing that increases by five years the upper age limit for commercial pilots operating two-pilot aircraft, subject to conditions. The new provisions become applicable on 23 November 2006 and read as follows:

2.1.10.1 A Contracting State, having issued pilot licences, shall not permit the holders thereof to act as pilot-in-command of an aircraft engaged in international commercial air transport operations if the licence holders have attained their 60th birthday or, in the case of operations with more than one pilot where the other pilot is younger than 60 years of age, their 65th birthday.

2.1.10.2 Recommendation.— A Contracting State, having issued pilot licences, should not permit the holders thereof to act as co-pilot of an aircraft engaged in international commercial air transport operations if the licence holders have attained their 65th birthday.
1) Pilot-in-Command aged 60-64 years of age

In accordance with Article 33 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation, the amendment means that if a pilot-in-command (PIC) is 60 years of age or over but less than 65 years of age and is engaged in operations with more than one pilot, he/she cannot be prevented by reason of age from operating in airports or the airspace of any ICAO Contracting State as long as at least one other pilot is under 60 years of age. For single-pilot commercial air transport operations, the upper age limit remains at 60 years. A State may impose a lower maximum age limit than that specified by ICAO in § 2.1.10.1 for the licenses it issues but it cannot prevent, by reason of age, an aircraft from another State operated by a PIC holding a licence issued or validated by that State, who is below the ICAO upper age limit, from operating in the airspace above its territory.

2) Pilot-in-Command 65 years of age and over

Articles 39 and 40 of the Convention are also relevant to the age limit of pilots-in-command engaged in commercial air transport operations as they authorize international flights by flight crew who do not meet all international licensing Standards, provided that an authorization is given by each State into which the aircraft is operated. Those seeking information concerning States that may authorize pilots to fly in their airspace after reaching the age of 65 years are advised to contact individual Civil Aviation Authorities

3) Augmented crews

In commercial long-range air transport, the designated flight crew may be augmented, and can number three, four or even more pilots. In the case of flight crew comprising more than two pilots, the intent of § 2.1.10.1 is to ensure that, when the pilot-in-command is over 60 but less than 65 years of age, the operating flight crew includes at least one other pilot, who is licensed, appropriately rated for all phases of flight, current, and younger than 60 years of age. It is suggested that during high workload phases of flight (such as flight below 10,000 feet above ground level) at least one pilot seated at the controls should be under 60 years of age.

4) Medical Assessment

When over 60, a six-monthly medical assessment is necessary (ICAO specifies an annual medical assessment for those under 60 years who are engaged in two-pilot operations).

Last edited by FoxHunter; 01-28-2008 at 10:29 AM. Reason: added from ICAO FAQ
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:53 AM   #10
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Thanks for the clarification FH. We can imagine how painful it must be to type with that terrible, debilitating, shoulder injury that you are recovering from.
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