MoneyMan

Has anyone else noticed the continued increase in pickup times being set by the ramp in SE Asia. These times used to be "adjustable" but now have become absolute (except for SIN if you talk to Robert). KIX won't adjust times no matter what--even though it only takes 35-45 minutes at 4 a.m. to get there. It is getting to become standard and yet the company "wins" because the bid pack does not reflect it, so pairings do not correctly show duty days and crew rest.

Anyone work for the union that knows if ALPA is looking at this?

Any comments?

Ops Report filed:

The problem of pickup times has become endemic in SE Asia. Almost every station is now adding an arbitrary time (15-30 minutes) to scheduled bid pack pickup times, regardless of actual transportation times. SIN, KIX, HKG now add 15 minutes to the dispo. SIN gives the Captain the option to change it on the sheet, but 90% of the time "forgets" to modify the alert/pickup. HKG no longer gives the Captain the option and the issue must be forced. KIX won't even think about changing it back to the bid pack time even though all month it took only 35 minutes (8 p.m. to 4 a.m. pickup times, not the 1+15 now being allotted). The problem is that this is impacting crew duty day and sleep rest for each and every pairing that is not being accounted for in the bid pack or Crew Recap, and certainly not in the specific trip sequence. Ramps need to abide by the scheduled times UNLESS special circumstances (weather, winds, etc.) exist and that must be communicated to the crew, along with subsequent FCIF if this becomes a permanent change (which it has now in Asia).

MD11Fr8Dog

I have changed pick up times back in the past. I could care less if the ride shows up at the new ramp scheduled time, I'm going to be down stairs at the pairing scheduled time! ALA used to do this a lot, SIN too, and you're right about Robert "fixing" it for you if you talk to him about it! You are doing the correct thing in reporting it in an Ops report. If a pick up time is changed it should be reflected in the pairing!

FR8Hauler

Here is the deal. Alert time is one hour before scheduled in the bid-pack showtime period. Your captain has no stones if he does anything else. Make the company build it into the line, don't leave it up to some Japanese flunky on the KIX ramp to dictate your showtime. If they have a problem with this, tell them to call scheduling and tell them to revise your trip to indicate the new showtime. I have told many of them to pound sand on this issue. The captain is the man in Asia (probably nowhere else though).

LEROY

Or you guys could start bidding domestic so I could hold some of these treacherous international lines with dreadfully early alert times...

FR8Hauler

Leroy, sure come up to ANC and live the "good life" with us flying international. Check out the bid pack. Oh, sorry we don't get them anymore.

Gunter

How about this--

Tell scheduling to fix it, get denied, tell the ramp to fix it, get ignored, then hang out in the room until actual pickup time.

Where is the heat coming from to fold on this issue?

How can they make you get into the car early when you are still in your room?

MD11Fr8Dog

Better, the early alert interrupted your crew rest - rest the clock for 8 hrs!

But I agree, just show up down stairs at the pairing assigned time.

Then call a DO, call ALPA, call your ACP, call "O"! Be a squeaky wheel!

subicpilot

From the company standpoint, crew rest starts 30 min. after block in. That early alert won't reset your clock unless it happens within the first 8 hours you have free from duty.

I also agree...if nothing is written up, nothing will change. Squeaky wheel mentality...

kronan

Hate to burst the bubble, but the company can give an alert call without busting/requiring another 8 hour rest period. (allowed in 12.A.4)

And the FAA is okay with that. (Search for FAA one call ROT....or go to ALPAs Flight Time/Duty Time section)

And the reason is that during a rest period a pilot is under no obligation to answer the phone, and answering it is a voluntary action....just as it is if it was the spouse/buds calling.

Pretty simple to avoid a phone calls you don't want.

And personally, I just do what's in the bidpack/pairing summary. If the company wants me there earlier to block out earlier, they can revise the pairing. Been a couple of places domestically where the hotel provides the transportation....and the hotel has tried to impose an earlier departure.

Tried being the operative word, because I'm not hanging around ops for free. Just not my idea of fun

MoneyMan

Update: I talked with the KIX ramp manager. He said he's been trying to get it changed for a year. He says that FedEx MEM mgt is aware, but just tells ramp to add the time. Memphis knows that "formally" fixing it will affect the pairings, so he says they tell the ramps to add the times and that way it doesn't cost the company anything. Most crews don't change the times, so the company wins.