Being Picky With Giving Recommendations
 

(Warning; Bourbon induced syntax)

I am fairly new @ World and already I have been hit up for giving LOR's. A friend had given me one and I would certainly like to pay it forward. However, I have found one should be selective as to whom they recommend. If one or two turns out to be bad then you reduce the efficacy of any future recs. Not to mention, I am sure my employer wouldn't put much stock in a probationary employee's recs.

Someone you know is a great pilot but has an attitude problem. Or, you know someone with a great attitude but haven't flown with them. (World wants you to have flown w/ the candidate) Sometimes I feel torn. I really do want to help but, I fell have to cover my own butt. I have even been "cold-called" for LOR's through these message boards. i.e. "Hey, would you be willing to get to know me via email and write me a rec?"

How selective are you when giving recs? As for negating your recs if you recommend one that didn't work out, how does your airline look at LOR's?

well a complete stranger who's writing you on APC would totally understand if you said "i dont know you so I would feel weird writing a recommendation." But for people you know or met personally, I think its always great to help out.

Plus, if the guy you got hired ends up doing something stupid 1 or 2 years later, theres no chance they'll link it you or even remember your name. If you get 10 people hired and all 10 get in trouble, then wow thats tough luck and you might then have some explaining to do.

After I got hired at FedEx I heard from "old friends" that I hadn't heard from in many years (not even a Christmas card?). Well, I didn't let that influence me.


... I told the truth (isn't that what FedEx wanted?), "haven't heard from this guy in years and didn't like him much when I did. And oh, by the way, the squadron would NEVER let this guy sign for an airplane by himself but he was an adequate co-pilot I guess?"

Be selective, it's a small company. I have helped 1 guy hired in the last 10 years. Some of my buds have asked, when they were furloughed from the legacies, but i have talked them out of it because I knew it would not suit them. How the rec works out could reflect on you.

Cheers,
WG

you chose to write that? ouch man, the right thing to do would have been not to write one at all. its one thing to say no to a letter, but to write a letter that hes just going to throw in the trash, or worse yet one that goes directly to the company that makes the guy look really bad is pretty messed up, especially if he spent 10-20+ years serving in the armed forces. there are a lot of guys i flew with in the air force i didnt like, but i wouldnt sabotage their career

I don't think MaydayMark was "sabatoging" anyone's career ... wouldn't it be his/hers previous actions that "makes the guy look really bad" ... :confused:

It would be more like not inviting the undesirable acquaintance to his party ... ;)

Now if he wrote that letter and sent it off to EVERY possible employer ... now that would be sabatoge

:D

But to answer the original poster ... I could only recomend someone that I have known and was comfortable sharing the cockpit with for a 10 day trip ... IMHO

Later, Brown CC

I am VERY selective with who I recommend for reasons previously stated.

I also WOULD NEVER ask someone I barely know to recommend me. I honetsly don't know how they could. I hate it when people sit at the FBO fishing for certain company pilots just so they can ask for a LOR. It is just wrong. You network and make connections and do a good job in what you do. Word gets out about your rep and the LORs will happen somehow.

My .02

A couple of years ago, the FedEx SCP sent out an email specifically asking for good and bad recommendations. :eek: I sponsored a couple of good friends for interviews. FedEx has a program where a sponsor brings an applicant in for a meet-and-greet (In the Navy, we called it a "Grip-and-grin" ;) ). An ACP actually meets the applicant and pre-screens them. They make sure all the paperwork is in order. The ACPs asked me very specific and pointed questions about how well I knew the guys. They also mentioned that if the person that I sponsored became a problem I would be contacted about it. They would not be able to do anything to me but it would definitely have an affect on any of my future recommendations. So far, so good. I sponsored three, they all got hired, and are doing well. :cool:

What about setting up a pay for recommendation program. Where some stranger pays you a certain sum of money and in exchange, they get a recommendation.

PM me ... I might be able to help YOU. :D

i see where youre coming from. but still it comes off as a very arrogant (not singling out UPS/FDX pilots at all) thing to do. everyone of us at some point along the way has gotten some help from someone. A large segment of my squadron flies for UPS, and everyone helped each other get on. even a couple mgt guys in there. all are great guys. i just dont know about writing a negative letter. "not inviting to a party" would be the same as not writing a letter. however, this is saying "im not inviting you to the party, and im going to make sure you never get invited to any of our parties." if the guy truly is a dirtbag, dont write him a letter and its done.

I think, "the squadron would NEVER let this guy sign for an airplane by himself ", pretty much speaks for itself.

letters are really more for character reference arent they? If the guy is a bad pilot, it will show in his checkride/PC history etc. theres no way he passed every checkride and has no blemishes on his record, yet the squadron wont let him sign for the jet. come on now, every unit has had guys go off the runway, ding wingtips, blow tires, etc etc and they lose their qual, come back in the sim and get rechecked, and theyre back out on the line signing for airplanes.

if theres guys out there that are truly horrible pilots, just dont write them a letter. their flying history will speak for itself and they wont make it through.

I can't really think of anyone that I would write a negative recommendation for. I just think that's wrong.....let them sabotage their own career. If they are bad enough to write a bad rec., they will screw themselves at some point. I just don't believe in doing that.

I've been pretty lucky in that most of the people that have asked me for a rec. have been people I had no problem with recommending. The few that I really didn't want to do one for, I just told them to write their own and send it to me. Most of the reason I don't really want to write them a rec. is because they are unmotivated and lazy anyways....so guess what? They never send me back the completed rec........problem solved. The few that I know that I would NEVER in a million years write a rec. for know better than to ask me for one. They are the non standard cocky ones that I've had to chew out when I was a regional captain. I think if they called, I would laugh.

I have many old buds from the Navy that I didn't stay in touch. After a several squadrons, would be tough too do. I have no problem with them looking me up 15 years later as they retire or are furloughed, etc looking for the gouge and a possible rec. I have the brass to tell someone I won't write one. When I do write one, I send a copy of what I wrote to the individual so they know what I wrote. If they choose for me not to turn it in, I don't. It's fair.

Actually being a civilian guy myself - what exactly does that mean? Are you saying that the commander AND the squadron sign for an airplane?

'Signing' is sort of like a dispatch release that the commander, pic or whatever you call it has to approve, correct? If so, are you saying his squadron would refuse to fly with him/her or what does that mean? Sorry, I'm mil-ignoramous.

There are at least a couple of large airlines out there that post the names of potential recruits (up for an interview)to the pilot group, or allow pilot's on the line to see who's resumes are in the drawer. Personally, I think it's a great idea, if the recruitment team knows how to vet, which, if they are on the recruitment team, they likely do.

After spending fourteen hours with a guy/gal, then multiple day's in foreign cities, then another fourteen hours back home, it's safe to say that the airline I fly for takes recommendations very seriously; good and bad. So should they. If someone in my company knows that there is a problem with a potential candidate and doesn't speak up, well I would have a very big problem with that. Did they sewer that persons career; I think the person in question was the one who handled that.

I find it a bit off putting in this day and age of CRM, PDM and the like that there is a problem with those who want to make sure their airlines good, or very good in my employers case, culture remains that way. It's like the guy's who know there is a looming problem (immediate or long term)on the flight deck and don't speak up.

Wannabe,

If a squadron CO (Commanding Officer) says that a certain pilot will never sign for an aircraft in his squadron, he means that the pilot in question will never act as the aircraft commander (Captain/PIC, in civilian terminology). It's a pretty harsh thing to say about someone, and it speaks loud and clear as to what the command thinks about a pilot's leadership and flight skills. It basically means that the command doesn't trust the guy.

Clear as mud?

In my military experience, I rarely ran across a guy that was so ham fisted, I wouldn't trust him to fly the aircraft. You can always teach a guy to help him improve his stick and rudder skills. We all aren't born Chuck Yeager.

What is much harder to teach a guy is how to be a mature, level headed aircraft commander, that leads by example. In the C-130 community, we routinely went on the road for 2 weeks to destinations all over the world. Handling the crew, along with all the other problems that can arise on a world wide trip takes a mature leader. Over the years, we had a handful of pilots that could fly the hell out of the Herk, but the CO didn't trust them on the road, because they were "goofballs," and I use that term loosely. Needless to say, these fellows never ended up signing for an aircraft.