FDX- Top 10 reasons to NOT sign the FDA LoA.
02-08-2008, 09:03 AM
#1
Proponent of Hysteria
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: "Part of the problem." : JL
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FDX- CDG/HKG Pilots not signing the FDA LOA...
For better or for worse, the cat’s out of the bag. Page one of the LOA states when a pilot awarded an FDA is required to sign the FDA LOA, and what happens if he she does not.
b. Pilots awarded vacancies at CDG or HKG will be provided with paper copies of the agreement and shall sign and return such signed copies to the System Chief Pilot prior to the start of any training for the FDA vacancy, or, if no training is required, then prior to the distribution of any benefits stemming from the pilot’s FDA vacancy award (e.g., seed money).
c. Absent extenuating circumstances, if a pilot later fails or refuses to sign the agreement in the required time frame, he shall be frozen in his current crew position for two years, as if his failure to sign the agreement had been a down/lateral bid covered by Section 24.E.1.c. Such freeze shall not result in any passover pay.
This provision was thankfully included in the LOA by our Union to enable a pilot to change his mind, due to the company’s failure to answer some of his/her questions (Or the company’s answering his/her questions to his/her dissatisfaction). The “check box” in VIPS when a pilot bids an FDA does not constitute a legal agreement forcing the pilot to then sign the FDA LOA. We would not have the above language included in the LOA in the first place if it did.
Below is a list of unanswered questions that I’ve compiled from various pilots (myself included) and are valid reasons for NOT signing the FDA LOA yet. Some are applicable to only HKG, and some apply to both HKG and CDG.
v Remail Program?
I'm sure there are more reasons out there. Feel free to add to the list.
b. Pilots awarded vacancies at CDG or HKG will be provided with paper copies of the agreement and shall sign and return such signed copies to the System Chief Pilot prior to the start of any training for the FDA vacancy, or, if no training is required, then prior to the distribution of any benefits stemming from the pilot’s FDA vacancy award (e.g., seed money).
c. Absent extenuating circumstances, if a pilot later fails or refuses to sign the agreement in the required time frame, he shall be frozen in his current crew position for two years, as if his failure to sign the agreement had been a down/lateral bid covered by Section 24.E.1.c. Such freeze shall not result in any passover pay.
This provision was thankfully included in the LOA by our Union to enable a pilot to change his mind, due to the company’s failure to answer some of his/her questions (Or the company’s answering his/her questions to his/her dissatisfaction). The “check box” in VIPS when a pilot bids an FDA does not constitute a legal agreement forcing the pilot to then sign the FDA LOA. We would not have the above language included in the LOA in the first place if it did.
Below is a list of unanswered questions that I’ve compiled from various pilots (myself included) and are valid reasons for NOT signing the FDA LOA yet. Some are applicable to only HKG, and some apply to both HKG and CDG.
v Remail Program?
Ø The company has not answered if there will be a remail program, i.e. the “Box SFS” Anchorage AK that SFS pilots currently have.
Ø Having a simple Remail program (“Box HKG” and Box “CDG” based in the US) which allows you to have a US address, and thus your mail and small, shoebox sized, packages forwarded to you free of cost (and customs), is extremely important to pilots based overseas.
Ø A pilot based in HKG or CDG should not be forced to go to Mail Box Etc (now called the UPS Store) and set up his own US forwarding address, at his own expense (and his own uncertainty whether the small package he ordered online from CVS.com or Ebay will be seized by Chinese customs agents.
v Ability to live in CAN and Macau?Ø Having a simple Remail program (“Box HKG” and Box “CDG” based in the US) which allows you to have a US address, and thus your mail and small, shoebox sized, packages forwarded to you free of cost (and customs), is extremely important to pilots based overseas.
Ø A pilot based in HKG or CDG should not be forced to go to Mail Box Etc (now called the UPS Store) and set up his own US forwarding address, at his own expense (and his own uncertainty whether the small package he ordered online from CVS.com or Ebay will be seized by Chinese customs agents.
Ø Pilots wishing to avoid the extreme expense of HKG, as well as the uncertain Ground Trans issue, were told they’d have the ability to live in CAN.
Ø Now, they’re being told “We aren’t really sure yet.” The Union says they are working on this issue, but it would be nice to know now, since there's an open bid going on.
Ø This is a huge issue for those particular pilots. (and new hires)
v Taxes / Price Waterhouse?Ø Now, they’re being told “We aren’t really sure yet.” The Union says they are working on this issue, but it would be nice to know now, since there's an open bid going on.
Ø This is a huge issue for those particular pilots. (and new hires)
Ø Exactly how will the tax withholding in any given pay period work under Tax Equalization?
Ø Will there be over withholding issues?
Ø Will the withholding be based on a pilot who likes to fly min BLG and drop 4 reserve days a month, or a they guy who bids a VTO and puts “Max BLG” as his #1 request and still picks up open time on his days off?
Ø Will the individual pilot still have access to the Green Screen to change his Number of Standard Deductions on his W-4, in order to adjust the withholding to suit his needs? Or will everyone be forced to over pay, and hope to get his money back once a year at tax time, while having given FedEx and the US Government an interest free loan?
Ø How strict will Price Waterhouse have been instructed by FedEx to be with deductions? If your rent is 4000 a month, and you’re getting 2700 from FedEx, will you be allowed to deduct the $1300 a month difference? (as you should be) Will you be allowed to use the US Government MIE rates and deduct the difference that FedEx’s lower per diem rate causes? http://www.gsa.gov/mie
v Meeting Point ?Ø Will there be over withholding issues?
Ø Will the withholding be based on a pilot who likes to fly min BLG and drop 4 reserve days a month, or a they guy who bids a VTO and puts “Max BLG” as his #1 request and still picks up open time on his days off?
Ø Will the individual pilot still have access to the Green Screen to change his Number of Standard Deductions on his W-4, in order to adjust the withholding to suit his needs? Or will everyone be forced to over pay, and hope to get his money back once a year at tax time, while having given FedEx and the US Government an interest free loan?
Ø How strict will Price Waterhouse have been instructed by FedEx to be with deductions? If your rent is 4000 a month, and you’re getting 2700 from FedEx, will you be allowed to deduct the $1300 a month difference? (as you should be) Will you be allowed to use the US Government MIE rates and deduct the difference that FedEx’s lower per diem rate causes? http://www.gsa.gov/mie
Ø Pilots were promised more information about the Meeting Point after the 1st of the year. Well, the march bid packs are out and no new info.
Ø Where will the meeting point be? Will there be more than one?
Ø When the 3 hour HKG to CAN ground trans turns out to be consistently longer than 3 hours, can the company simply move the meeting point closer and close to CAN, to avoid restructuring pairings because of scheduled duty time limits?
Ø Will there be a taxi/ferry allowance to allow pilots to get from their house to the meeting point?
Ø Will there be a taxi allowance to allow pilots living in CAN to get from their house to the airport?
Ø If a pilot chooses to live in CAN, and bids reserve, is his 3 hour callout to the CAN airport, or the meeting point?
v Grouns Trans?Ø Where will the meeting point be? Will there be more than one?
Ø When the 3 hour HKG to CAN ground trans turns out to be consistently longer than 3 hours, can the company simply move the meeting point closer and close to CAN, to avoid restructuring pairings because of scheduled duty time limits?
Ø Will there be a taxi/ferry allowance to allow pilots to get from their house to the meeting point?
Ø Will there be a taxi allowance to allow pilots living in CAN to get from their house to the airport?
Ø If a pilot chooses to live in CAN, and bids reserve, is his 3 hour callout to the CAN airport, or the meeting point?
Ø What type of vehicles will be used?
Ø Will each crew get their own vehicle? Or, if two crews are scheduled to arrive at the hub at similar times, will they be forced to share one vehicle? If you’re due in from BKK at 12:30am and the PVG flight is due in at 1:00am, will you be forced to sit in CAN waiting for them because the company isn’t providing individual transportation?
Ø How many round trip proving runs were done and then averaged to arrive at the 3 hour block time via ground trans from HKG to CAN? 0? And at what time of day/night were they done? Ohh, they weren’t done in the first place.
v MPDP/E Base?Ø Will each crew get their own vehicle? Or, if two crews are scheduled to arrive at the hub at similar times, will they be forced to share one vehicle? If you’re due in from BKK at 12:30am and the PVG flight is due in at 1:00am, will you be forced to sit in CAN waiting for them because the company isn’t providing individual transportation?
Ø How many round trip proving runs were done and then averaged to arrive at the 3 hour block time via ground trans from HKG to CAN? 0? And at what time of day/night were they done? Ohh, they weren’t done in the first place.
Ø Minimum Pay Per Duty Period base. If the company designates HKG as a MPDP base, pilots will lose pay nearly every time they go to work. The 6 hour pay (MPDP) vs 6:24 pay issue (non MPDP). You’ll lose roughly 24 minutes of pay on each hub-turn you do because they are nearly all less than 6 hours flight time. This 24 minutes amounts to a lost $52 per hub turn for FOs (at 130 an hour) and a lost $90 for CAs (at 225 an hour).
v Catering?Ø Your trip is PVG – CAN, hub-turn CAN-BKK. Most pilots will probably want their meal on the PVG to CAN leg, and not at 0330 at top of climb on the CAN –BKK leg. Will the company provide this? Or will they force you to wait and eat the cheaper for FedEx catering in CAN?
v Training Pay Issue?Ø Those based in SFS are acutely aware of this. The training footprint for the yearly training done in MEM is 11 days long. Under the new contract, the company has found a way to pay you the following month for your training, simply to float your money (under the old contract you were paid for your training in the month it was conducted).
Ø If you protect min days off in the month when you have MEM training, you’re pay check for that month will for roughly 4 days worth of credit. Of course, the following month, you’ll get a rather large check when you are paid for the training you did, but this is a month later. Is it fair to force a pilot to endure a miniscule monthly check wait a full month to get paid for training?
Ø This is a large inconvenience (ask any SFS pilot) and has yet to be resolved.
v ALPA Loss of License Insurance?Ø If you protect min days off in the month when you have MEM training, you’re pay check for that month will for roughly 4 days worth of credit. Of course, the following month, you’ll get a rather large check when you are paid for the training you did, but this is a month later. Is it fair to force a pilot to endure a miniscule monthly check wait a full month to get paid for training?
Ø This is a large inconvenience (ask any SFS pilot) and has yet to be resolved.
Ø Pilots based in the USA may or may not be aware of this:
Ø If you are living outside the country, you are NOT covered by ALPA Loss of License insurance.
Ø Of course, ALPA will still let you pay for it, however, it has been put in writing that you will NOT be covered in the event you lose your license while you are living overseas
The above questions have all been unanswered to date (Feb 9) and are valid reasons for not committing yourself to an FDA. This list was made at 2am, so please excuse any spelling / gramatical errors, as well as the fact it's not as funny as Lettermans Top 10s.Ø If you are living outside the country, you are NOT covered by ALPA Loss of License insurance.
Ø Of course, ALPA will still let you pay for it, however, it has been put in writing that you will NOT be covered in the event you lose your license while you are living overseas
I'm sure there are more reasons out there. Feel free to add to the list.
Last edited by skypine27; 02-08-2008 at 05:53 PM.
02-09-2008, 09:35 AM
#3
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: MD-11 Captain
Posts: 88
Originally Posted by Gooch121
Great post! Hope everyone who took the opportunity to bid the FDA's has the opportunity to read this.
Be nice if our MEC would approach the Company about answering many of these unanswered questions.
Be nice if our MEC would approach the Company about answering many of these unanswered questions.
Silly me, proactive and MEC can not go together. My bad.
02-09-2008, 02:14 PM
#4
Ok, No more sleeping Dog
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: MD-11, F/O
Posts: 889
How interesting......and very sad. The post with the most useful, compelling and current event relevent subject matter in it gets 2 replies (besides this one), and yet so many burn their fingers on the key board, tripping over themselves to respond to the drivel put out by certain Non-members aka. NMB, aka "The Tick". We should be burning this thread up hashing out all Ten of these issues; not least of which is the non-coverage for loss of license. THIS IS HUGE!!! Anyone????? Beuller???????..........
02-09-2008, 02:24 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 777 FO
Posts: 931
Great observations....but....isn't it a little late? We're pretty much stuck with what we have, I think. There's no way DW and the gang will go back and admit the egg they laid on this one, thus I wouldn't anticipate any positive changes anytime soon.
02-09-2008, 02:29 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Completely Apolitical Nonsensical Slogan that has nothing to do with politics in the slightest....
Posts: 160
Hey.... we signed this POS by 68%... So to quote Billy the Kid from that awful movie "Young Guns":
"Reap the whirlwind, Murphy... Reap it!"
By agreeing to this LOA, F.Alpa might as well have told Mgt, "Don't worry about doing the right thing by those bidding the FDAs... in fact, throw the FDA pilots under the bus for all we care."
Don't worry about the bid because it's going to go senior mon cul! And the pun was intended...
Grrrrr....
TSD
P.S. I agree with all the points above...
"Reap the whirlwind, Murphy... Reap it!"
By agreeing to this LOA, F.Alpa might as well have told Mgt, "Don't worry about doing the right thing by those bidding the FDAs... in fact, throw the FDA pilots under the bus for all we care."
Don't worry about the bid because it's going to go senior mon cul! And the pun was intended...
Grrrrr....
TSD
P.S. I agree with all the points above...
02-09-2008, 04:43 PM
#8
Proponent of Hysteria
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: "Part of the problem." : JL
Posts: 1,053
Originally Posted by Gunter
Folks having second thoughts about going should know their options
c. Absent extenuating circumstances, if a pilot later fails or refuses to sign the agreement in the required time frame, he shall be frozen in his current crew position for two years, as if his failure to sign the agreement had been a down/lateral bid covered by Section 24.E.1.c. Such freeze shall not result in any passover pay.
02-10-2008, 05:09 PM
#9
"blue collar thug"!
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: A proponent of...
Posts: 1,614
Originally Posted by Deuce130
Great observations....but....isn't it a little late? We're pretty much stuck with what we have, I think. There's no way DW and the gang will go back and admit the egg they laid on this one, thus I wouldn't anticipate any positive changes anytime soon.
And, as far as going senior.....at first, no. After the age 60 deal, it is going a little more senior than before.
Nobody is stuck with what they have until all options are played out. And, I dont think they are played out.
Also, FedEx, from what I hear, is having their own problems with the Chinese on certain issues. I would guess that things will get worse for the Company in their dealings with free market loving Chinese.
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