FDX - Let's all just take a brief "time out"
06-15-2008, 01:13 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 757 CA
Posts: 153
FDX - Let's all just take a brief "time out"
From talking with various pilots and looking at these web boards, there are some things happening that I really don't like seeing. Consider this a small personal rant, and I am only seeking that everyone take a brief "time out," catch your breath, hold off on blame for a few minutes, and try and look at the big picture.
Now, first off, I want to say, that I have been here for just about 2 years. I did grow up in MEM and I am very familiar with FDX's history. I have had a 6 year sentence at a regional, and I am an 8 year ALPA member. I am deeply familiar with union politics and the "me, me, me" pilot perspective. I feel that our contract should be known intimately by all of us. Know your rights, and your limitations. Limitations are usually not printed there, but when management pulls one on us, realize that sometimes they just find a hole and jump in. We need to make note of it, and fill it during the next round of negotiations.
As a result of age 65, the company's decision to park the DC-10, and the declining domestic economy, I think we all agree that there needs to be some kind of a shuffle in the seniority list.
Lots of us (the majority) did not like our union's policy on retroactivity of the old farts coming back to window seats. I am in the minority in agreeing with our union's side of REPRESENTING all of our pilots even when the majority may oppose a particular policy. Regardless, age 60 is gone, and the 'senior citizens' may bid into a window seat again.
Now along comes our excess bid. Crew staffing levels are completely controlled by the company and it's bean counters. I have come to the conclusion long ago at airlines, that "I don't possess the intelligent level high enough to see the big picture in those bean-counting rooms." But alas, I don't count the beans, I just fly the jets. I think it's important for all of us to realize that these bean-counters and management types are the ones who are deciding to put the 'senior citizens' in window seats. It seems that they are actually going out of their way to make this happen. Our union, to my knowledge, is NOT telling the company to put these 'senior citizens' in senior seats and bump everyone else down. This is the company's decision.
Now, I consider myself pretty proficient in counting beans (spreadsheet usage, at least) and I like trying to peek around the corner and try & take a look at the big picture, although not allowed in the room. What I have found as a result of these bids is the following:
1. Bid 08-02 with a 727 S/O excess was not needed, but for some reason the company wanted to give the NDs a shot at a window seat. This was the only way that could happen.
2. If you look at a snapshot of the seniority list BEFORE the excess bids, we were fat in almost every seat, HKG is still not staffed, there are people sitting in the most junior crew position making more than F/Os, and there are lots of junior pilots making passover pay.
3. If you look at a snapshot of the seniority list AFTER this practice bid, we are only fat in the 727 S/O seat, and those people are all now making the lowest pay in the company, HKG is staffed, there aren't any high-longevety folks sitting in the junior seats, and everybody is getting paid what they should.
4. Since we are fat right now, pooling those extra bodies in the lowest paying seat saves money, and just in case of an upcoming furlough, it makes it easy to do.
This post-snapshot looks great on a balance sheet! Keeping the training department staffed also looks good on that sheet!
Now, us pilots don't look at that balance sheet, and look at 847 training cycles, 295 move packages, 437 downgrades, pay cuts for many, 200 extra S/Os, and being forced to move to ANC only to move back now silly, expensive, and bordering on stupidity. But again, we aren't the bean-counters or managers, and if this is what they want to do, there really isn't anything we can do; they control the staffing levels.
Talking with pilots this week as well as a read of the web boards are starting to fill with "Blame the union!" "I'll start picking up disputed pairings!" "Impeach!" "Get the torches and pitchforks out!"
I just wanted to ask all of us, to take a deep breath, and look at the big picture as it relates to our union and fellow pilots. ALPA-FDX is what we the pilots make of it. Yes, our MEC backed in-house retroactivity, and age 65 has passed. We just need to learn to live with that. I'm not trying to attack those being downgraded, prevented from upgrading, being held back 5 years. I feel that pain! But that can't be undone. Trying to blame the union for the company's decision to give those old farts a chance, is misplaced anger, in my opinion. Trying to undercut the union in flying disputed pairings and saying things like "my union doesn't speak for me now" is not going to help us move forward. Our union is what we make of it! If you really don't agree with how the union is doing things, volunteer and get involved!
Sorry this ran so long, I am just pleading with all of us to please don't get the pitchforks & torches out and all become non-members.
I have faith in this company, it is still making a profit. I personally will still face sideways for a few more years, have been teased with a 757 seat twice now, and I will take a $25/hour pay cut. Compared to my buddies who are getting furloughed at other airlines, I feel that I am lucky to be here. I just think we need to stand behind our union now, more than ever; holding a grudge and taking our anger out towards ourselves is not the way to move forward from here.
Now, first off, I want to say, that I have been here for just about 2 years. I did grow up in MEM and I am very familiar with FDX's history. I have had a 6 year sentence at a regional, and I am an 8 year ALPA member. I am deeply familiar with union politics and the "me, me, me" pilot perspective. I feel that our contract should be known intimately by all of us. Know your rights, and your limitations. Limitations are usually not printed there, but when management pulls one on us, realize that sometimes they just find a hole and jump in. We need to make note of it, and fill it during the next round of negotiations.
As a result of age 65, the company's decision to park the DC-10, and the declining domestic economy, I think we all agree that there needs to be some kind of a shuffle in the seniority list.
Lots of us (the majority) did not like our union's policy on retroactivity of the old farts coming back to window seats. I am in the minority in agreeing with our union's side of REPRESENTING all of our pilots even when the majority may oppose a particular policy. Regardless, age 60 is gone, and the 'senior citizens' may bid into a window seat again.
Now along comes our excess bid. Crew staffing levels are completely controlled by the company and it's bean counters. I have come to the conclusion long ago at airlines, that "I don't possess the intelligent level high enough to see the big picture in those bean-counting rooms." But alas, I don't count the beans, I just fly the jets. I think it's important for all of us to realize that these bean-counters and management types are the ones who are deciding to put the 'senior citizens' in window seats. It seems that they are actually going out of their way to make this happen. Our union, to my knowledge, is NOT telling the company to put these 'senior citizens' in senior seats and bump everyone else down. This is the company's decision.
Now, I consider myself pretty proficient in counting beans (spreadsheet usage, at least) and I like trying to peek around the corner and try & take a look at the big picture, although not allowed in the room. What I have found as a result of these bids is the following:
1. Bid 08-02 with a 727 S/O excess was not needed, but for some reason the company wanted to give the NDs a shot at a window seat. This was the only way that could happen.
2. If you look at a snapshot of the seniority list BEFORE the excess bids, we were fat in almost every seat, HKG is still not staffed, there are people sitting in the most junior crew position making more than F/Os, and there are lots of junior pilots making passover pay.
3. If you look at a snapshot of the seniority list AFTER this practice bid, we are only fat in the 727 S/O seat, and those people are all now making the lowest pay in the company, HKG is staffed, there aren't any high-longevety folks sitting in the junior seats, and everybody is getting paid what they should.
4. Since we are fat right now, pooling those extra bodies in the lowest paying seat saves money, and just in case of an upcoming furlough, it makes it easy to do.
This post-snapshot looks great on a balance sheet! Keeping the training department staffed also looks good on that sheet!
Now, us pilots don't look at that balance sheet, and look at 847 training cycles, 295 move packages, 437 downgrades, pay cuts for many, 200 extra S/Os, and being forced to move to ANC only to move back now silly, expensive, and bordering on stupidity. But again, we aren't the bean-counters or managers, and if this is what they want to do, there really isn't anything we can do; they control the staffing levels.
Talking with pilots this week as well as a read of the web boards are starting to fill with "Blame the union!" "I'll start picking up disputed pairings!" "Impeach!" "Get the torches and pitchforks out!"
I just wanted to ask all of us, to take a deep breath, and look at the big picture as it relates to our union and fellow pilots. ALPA-FDX is what we the pilots make of it. Yes, our MEC backed in-house retroactivity, and age 65 has passed. We just need to learn to live with that. I'm not trying to attack those being downgraded, prevented from upgrading, being held back 5 years. I feel that pain! But that can't be undone. Trying to blame the union for the company's decision to give those old farts a chance, is misplaced anger, in my opinion. Trying to undercut the union in flying disputed pairings and saying things like "my union doesn't speak for me now" is not going to help us move forward. Our union is what we make of it! If you really don't agree with how the union is doing things, volunteer and get involved!
Sorry this ran so long, I am just pleading with all of us to please don't get the pitchforks & torches out and all become non-members.
I have faith in this company, it is still making a profit. I personally will still face sideways for a few more years, have been teased with a 757 seat twice now, and I will take a $25/hour pay cut. Compared to my buddies who are getting furloughed at other airlines, I feel that I am lucky to be here. I just think we need to stand behind our union now, more than ever; holding a grudge and taking our anger out towards ourselves is not the way to move forward from here.
Last edited by Purple Nugget; 06-15-2008 at 12:13 PM. Reason: Being more PC. Near-deads replaced with more proper term, Senior Citizen, per BlueOnBlue's suggestion.
06-15-2008, 05:01 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Re-reading George Orwell's 'Animal Farm' and getting scared...
Posts: 276
Excellent post. Hope you are not one of the 200-ish that may fall below the red line soon. Since you brought up the "holes" management jumps into, do you think that they saw an opportunity to fracture the union when DW and the MEC loaded the pistol and handed THIS to them: "management types are the ones who are deciding to put the near-deads in window seats. It seems that they are actually going out of their way to make this happen." Or do I give them too much credit?
06-16-2008, 11:56 AM
#6
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 60
Stand behind DW after he forced retro? Smashing our "UNITY" on a flimsy retro argument. Pound sand.
I called and spoke with 2 reps prior to DW's infamous actions of MAY '07 and made my case against retro. Behold, the Koolaid had long been consumed by the LEC's and they blindly and boldly went where DW said they should. And here we sit with the ramifications. A short 2 years away from contract negotiations with angry, upset members with no unity. Headed to a gunfight without a gun.
DW, do the "right thing" for your union. RESIGN!!
I called and spoke with 2 reps prior to DW's infamous actions of MAY '07 and made my case against retro. Behold, the Koolaid had long been consumed by the LEC's and they blindly and boldly went where DW said they should. And here we sit with the ramifications. A short 2 years away from contract negotiations with angry, upset members with no unity. Headed to a gunfight without a gun.
DW, do the "right thing" for your union. RESIGN!!
06-16-2008, 01:29 PM
#10
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: MD-11 FO
Posts: 95
Originally Posted by Purple Nugget
From talking with various pilots and looking at these web boards, there are some things happening that I really don't like seeing. Consider this a small personal rant, and I am only seeking that everyone take a brief "time out," catch your breath, hold off on blame for a few minutes, and try and look at the big picture.
Now, first off, I want to say, that I have been here for just about 2 years. I did grow up in MEM and I am very familiar with FDX's history. I have had a 6 year sentence at a regional, and I am an 8 year ALPA member. I am deeply familiar with union politics and the "me, me, me" pilot perspective. I feel that our contract should be known intimately by all of us. Know your rights, and your limitations. Limitations are usually not printed there, but when management pulls one on us, realize that sometimes they just find a hole and jump in. We need to make note of it, and fill it during the next round of negotiations.
As a result of age 65, the company's decision to park the DC-10, and the declining domestic economy, I think we all agree that there needs to be some kind of a shuffle in the seniority list.
Lots of us (the majority) did not like our union's policy on retroactivity of the old farts coming back to window seats. I am in the minority in agreeing with our union's side of REPRESENTING all of our pilots even when the majority may oppose a particular policy. Regardless, age 60 is gone, and the 'senior citizens' may bid into a window seat again.
Now along comes our excess bid. Crew staffing levels are completely controlled by the company and it's bean counters. I have come to the conclusion long ago at airlines, that "I don't possess the intelligent level high enough to see the big picture in those bean-counting rooms." But alas, I don't count the beans, I just fly the jets. I think it's important for all of us to realize that these bean-counters and management types are the ones who are deciding to put the 'senior citizens' in window seats. It seems that they are actually going out of their way to make this happen. Our union, to my knowledge, is NOT telling the company to put these 'senior citizens' in senior seats and bump everyone else down. This is the company's decision.
Now, I consider myself pretty proficient in counting beans (spreadsheet usage, at least) and I like trying to peek around the corner and try & take a look at the big picture, although not allowed in the room. What I have found as a result of these bids is the following:
1. Bid 08-02 with a 727 S/O excess was not needed, but for some reason the company wanted to give the NDs a shot at a window seat. This was the only way that could happen.
2. If you look at a snapshot of the seniority list BEFORE the excess bids, we were fat in almost every seat, HKG is still not staffed, there are people sitting in the most junior crew position making more than F/Os, and there are lots of junior pilots making passover pay.
3. If you look at a snapshot of the seniority list AFTER this practice bid, we are only fat in the 727 S/O seat, and those people are all now making the lowest pay in the company, HKG is staffed, there aren't any high-longevety folks sitting in the junior seats, and everybody is getting paid what they should.
4. Since we are fat right now, pooling those extra bodies in the lowest paying seat saves money, and just in case of an upcoming furlough, it makes it easy to do.
This post-snapshot looks great on a balance sheet! Keeping the training department staffed also looks good on that sheet!
Now, us pilots don't look at that balance sheet, and look at 847 training cycles, 295 move packages, 437 downgrades, pay cuts for many, 200 extra S/Os, and being forced to move to ANC only to move back now silly, expensive, and bordering on stupidity. But again, we aren't the bean-counters or managers, and if this is what they want to do, there really isn't anything we can do; they control the staffing levels.
Talking with pilots this week as well as a read of the web boards are starting to fill with "Blame the union!" "I'll start picking up disputed pairings!" "Impeach!" "Get the torches and pitchforks out!"
I just wanted to ask all of us, to take a deep breath, and look at the big picture as it relates to our union and fellow pilots. ALPA-FDX is what we the pilots make of it. Yes, our MEC backed in-house retroactivity, and age 65 has passed. We just need to learn to live with that. I'm not trying to attack those being downgraded, prevented from upgrading, being held back 5 years. I feel that pain! But that can't be undone. Trying to blame the union for the company's decision to give those old farts a chance, is misplaced anger, in my opinion. Trying to undercut the union in flying disputed pairings and saying things like "my union doesn't speak for me now" is not going to help us move forward. Our union is what we make of it! If you really don't agree with how the union is doing things, volunteer and get involved!
Sorry this ran so long, I am just pleading with all of us to please don't get the pitchforks & torches out and all become non-members.
I have faith in this company, it is still making a profit. I personally will still face sideways for a few more years, have been teased with a 757 seat twice now, and I will take a $25/hour pay cut. Compared to my buddies who are getting furloughed at other airlines, I feel that I am lucky to be here. I just think we need to stand behind our union now, more than ever; holding a grudge and taking our anger out towards ourselves is not the way to move forward from here.
Now, first off, I want to say, that I have been here for just about 2 years. I did grow up in MEM and I am very familiar with FDX's history. I have had a 6 year sentence at a regional, and I am an 8 year ALPA member. I am deeply familiar with union politics and the "me, me, me" pilot perspective. I feel that our contract should be known intimately by all of us. Know your rights, and your limitations. Limitations are usually not printed there, but when management pulls one on us, realize that sometimes they just find a hole and jump in. We need to make note of it, and fill it during the next round of negotiations.
As a result of age 65, the company's decision to park the DC-10, and the declining domestic economy, I think we all agree that there needs to be some kind of a shuffle in the seniority list.
Lots of us (the majority) did not like our union's policy on retroactivity of the old farts coming back to window seats. I am in the minority in agreeing with our union's side of REPRESENTING all of our pilots even when the majority may oppose a particular policy. Regardless, age 60 is gone, and the 'senior citizens' may bid into a window seat again.
Now along comes our excess bid. Crew staffing levels are completely controlled by the company and it's bean counters. I have come to the conclusion long ago at airlines, that "I don't possess the intelligent level high enough to see the big picture in those bean-counting rooms." But alas, I don't count the beans, I just fly the jets. I think it's important for all of us to realize that these bean-counters and management types are the ones who are deciding to put the 'senior citizens' in window seats. It seems that they are actually going out of their way to make this happen. Our union, to my knowledge, is NOT telling the company to put these 'senior citizens' in senior seats and bump everyone else down. This is the company's decision.
Now, I consider myself pretty proficient in counting beans (spreadsheet usage, at least) and I like trying to peek around the corner and try & take a look at the big picture, although not allowed in the room. What I have found as a result of these bids is the following:
1. Bid 08-02 with a 727 S/O excess was not needed, but for some reason the company wanted to give the NDs a shot at a window seat. This was the only way that could happen.
2. If you look at a snapshot of the seniority list BEFORE the excess bids, we were fat in almost every seat, HKG is still not staffed, there are people sitting in the most junior crew position making more than F/Os, and there are lots of junior pilots making passover pay.
3. If you look at a snapshot of the seniority list AFTER this practice bid, we are only fat in the 727 S/O seat, and those people are all now making the lowest pay in the company, HKG is staffed, there aren't any high-longevety folks sitting in the junior seats, and everybody is getting paid what they should.
4. Since we are fat right now, pooling those extra bodies in the lowest paying seat saves money, and just in case of an upcoming furlough, it makes it easy to do.
This post-snapshot looks great on a balance sheet! Keeping the training department staffed also looks good on that sheet!
Now, us pilots don't look at that balance sheet, and look at 847 training cycles, 295 move packages, 437 downgrades, pay cuts for many, 200 extra S/Os, and being forced to move to ANC only to move back now silly, expensive, and bordering on stupidity. But again, we aren't the bean-counters or managers, and if this is what they want to do, there really isn't anything we can do; they control the staffing levels.
Talking with pilots this week as well as a read of the web boards are starting to fill with "Blame the union!" "I'll start picking up disputed pairings!" "Impeach!" "Get the torches and pitchforks out!"
I just wanted to ask all of us, to take a deep breath, and look at the big picture as it relates to our union and fellow pilots. ALPA-FDX is what we the pilots make of it. Yes, our MEC backed in-house retroactivity, and age 65 has passed. We just need to learn to live with that. I'm not trying to attack those being downgraded, prevented from upgrading, being held back 5 years. I feel that pain! But that can't be undone. Trying to blame the union for the company's decision to give those old farts a chance, is misplaced anger, in my opinion. Trying to undercut the union in flying disputed pairings and saying things like "my union doesn't speak for me now" is not going to help us move forward. Our union is what we make of it! If you really don't agree with how the union is doing things, volunteer and get involved!
Sorry this ran so long, I am just pleading with all of us to please don't get the pitchforks & torches out and all become non-members.
I have faith in this company, it is still making a profit. I personally will still face sideways for a few more years, have been teased with a 757 seat twice now, and I will take a $25/hour pay cut. Compared to my buddies who are getting furloughed at other airlines, I feel that I am lucky to be here. I just think we need to stand behind our union now, more than ever; holding a grudge and taking our anger out towards ourselves is not the way to move forward from here.
Thank you for your well-thought-out, pragmatic, and optimistic post. You are exactly right when you say our union is what we make of it and it is our only way to collectively bargain. And admittedly I agree there is too much angst and dirty laundry on these boards.
However....
When you speak of the union representing ALL our pilots, I see a flaw in that statement. It SHOULD, but much like the novel "Animal Farm", some pilots are "more equal" than others. To be specific, the interests of those pilots who are over 60 and not yet 65 have been much more represented by DW than those of the junior pilots. When DW spoke of "shared sacrifice" in his most recent communique, the cold hard truth is that means younger pilots sacrifice much to the benefit of older pilots. As I was reading DW's words, a recently requalled CAPT (a not-going-to-get-as-many-years-to-enjoy-his-retirement guy) I was within earshot of was talking about his 3 houses. Needless to say it didn't sit well.
While I have not lost faith in the union as a whole and would never leave, I have lost faith in DW. Although I think he represented us well during our last contract negotiations, the good will he inspired meant he went unchecked at a critical juncture of our careers. I feel he betrayed the wishes of the majority when it comes to our position on age 60 legislation and retroactivity. That, to me, is his cardinal sin and I feel he should be held accountable. He should either resign or be shown the door. Those who share my opinion should make their block reps aware of their desires.
I want to have confidence in our leadership again. It's coming back....slowly (thanks Albie), but the guy driving the train needs to change.
My opinion. Politically correct. No venom. As clear and concise as I can put it. I know I'm far from alone.
O11
Proud member, Damn glad to be here
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