With a huge flush bid like this, I don't think it is asking too much to publish a fairly accurate training letter. Of course many of the names will change, but as hdawg said, I want to postpone my training as long as possible to stay at my current pay rate and hopefully never go to training. It would at least give you an idea (subject to change) the rate different schools are planning on training. In other words, get your shlt together before putting our bids.

This is a problem with the company, but the union needs to be very involved as well. We are three days prior to the bid closing. Again, I don't think it is too much to ask for.....

 

But, if they put out a training letter, now...It wouldn't be accurate. Then you'd be basing your bidding decision on inaccurate information.

 

Seems like a simple compromise between your positions is in order.

1. A published training letter would be mostly useless.
2. A published training letter is required 10 days after bid closure per contract. 24 C.2.

Logically, relief to the company would be in order as they won't put the resources into the document prior to another bid closure. However, Gunter, the union can't give the company a pass on sections of the contract without a little comm - but that is just my opinion (littered with facts of course.)

 

Another little gotcha from our latest LOA. (Settlement Agreement Regarding the Cancellation of Crew Position Awards/Assignments, Regulated Age Freeze, and Excess Bid Procedures)

From the contract:

24.D.3
a. Pilots involuntarily excessed from a crew status shall be scheduled for
training in reverse seniority order. Application of this paragraph shall not
trigger passover pay for the involuntarily excessed pilots.

From the LOA:

F. Scheduled Training for Involuntary Excess Assignments in Posting 07-03 and Beyond

Scheduled training under Section 24.D.3.a. for pilots involuntarily excessed from a crew status shall be accomplished by pooling each involuntary assignment by crew position (e.g., FO MDll MEM).


Example: (Both Pilots being excessed off the same equipment lets say MD11FO)
Pilot A is senior to pilot B

Pilot A is excessed to 757FO per his/her standing excess bid.
Pilot B is excessed to 727FO per his/her standing excess bid.

Per the contract, Pilot B would need to be trained prior to Pilot A. (In reverse seniority order.)

Per the latest LOA, company can dictate all 757 training to occur first activating Pilot A into a lower paying position before B even goes to training (While B remains at the higher paying position.) It is my understanding that Pilot A would not be entintled to any passover pay even though he trained before B.

Nice giveback.

With that being said, it is understandable that there are those who want to hold the screws to the comapny with regard to section 24.C.2b.c-d. (Training letter with projected and activation date within 10 days following the closing of a posting.)

Crickets from ALPA.

PS Did we get anything in return for the latest LOA or just offer a bunch of relief to the company? Is that how we negotiate?

 

Busboy,

I agree with your statement. I am more concerned with rate of training rather than specific names. I am one that is being displaced. For example, how many a month are going through 727 FO per month? When are guys going through 757 training? If you bid 757, would it take a year or so to get trained?

As the union says, I want to use my seniority (what little there is) to my advantage and delay training for as long as possible. I know there are a lot of us that would like some info in this area. I am not even asking for extremely accurate info, just something to help with the bid. The company is required to produce a training letter. Spend an hour or two, forecast the classes you think will be offered, and send it out. Make a best guess. We all know that it is a rough draft and subject to change...

 

I understand what you're saying. But, until they know specifically what A/C-seat guys are coming from and going to...I don't think they know which group will be trained first. i.e. Will they train MEM-MD-11 F/Os coming from the 727 left seat before they train guys coming from MEM A-300 Capt to MEM MD-11 F/O? They can't make that decision until they know how many get excessed from each seat. So, I don't think it would do you any good.

Even the rate of training will be dependent on where they come from, won't it?

However, I agree that by the CBA, they should have either put something out or the association should have announced that we've given them some relief.

 

First trained will be 727 FOs and MD11 ANC FOs involuntarily excessed to 727 SO.

 

There you go, Nightfreight...Just ask Gunter.

 

I think the freight will be covered first, so the transition of MEM 11's to ANC will go first. Those of us on the bus going to ANC, that way ANC is covered, then there will be a mass exodus to the coffee pouring slot in the slave ship...

If the folks on the 11 aren't trained up first you get into some of the issues before of lack of pilots...that would be a shame if folks started getting sick and stopped picking up extra trips...but then again we are over manned so this would never happen

I think this is going to get yet another bump and flush if HKG doesn't get filled, so I wouldn't count on a training letter for another month and a half...but that is my merky crystal ball talking.

 

We can't even get the courtesy of getting (accurate) practice bids in a timely manner (maybe it just isn't important enough?). So ... how important do you think a fictitious training letter would be?